Jon hates the web. It’s full of spies and thieves and ads. Not the technologies that power the web; those are great. The system of destination websites with their own economics is a lost cause, Jon says. Drew challenges him to think through what would happen if he deleted Safari from his devices. It’s more complicated than that, obviously, but it’s worth thinking through. Do we even need it? Well, yes. But the web needs a complete do-over back to the Wild West ’90s if it’s ever going to deliver on its promise.

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