Commissioner Vicki Reed joins Dr. Sandie Morgan to discuss the intersection of juvenile justice and child welfare, highlighting the importance of collaboration, care, and community in supporting vulnerable youth and preventing their exploitation.

Vicki Reed

Vicki Reed has dedicated her career to child welfare and juvenile justice, with over two decades of experience working with system-involved youth. She holds a degree in law enforcement and a master’s in criminal justice, and has been a strong advocate for vulnerable children in both public and private sectors. Vicki has served as a juvenile probation officer, the director of a youth-serving agency, and has helped shape state-level training for child welfare workers in Kentucky. Beyond her advocacy and service as Juvenile Justice Commissioner of Kentucky, she is also an accomplished author. In her previous appearance on this podcast (episode 246), Vicki discussed her novel The Car Thief. In this episode, she shares insights from her latest novel, Sleight of Hand, which also draws from her extensive experience working with youth.

Key Points

• Vicki Reed shares how an unexpected opportunity and sense of calling led her to come out of retirement to serve as Kentucky’s Juvenile Justice Commissioner.


• She emphasizes the critical difference between juvenile justice and adult corrections, noting that punitive approaches fail with youth and that rehabilitation, mental health support, education, and pro-social activities are far more effective.


• The high cost of long-term incarceration underscores the need for early intervention and supportive programming for at-risk youth.


• Reed discusses how negative placement experiences in foster care can reinforce harmful behaviors, while positive, stable placements with appropriate support can change life trajectories.


• Her novels, The Car Thief and Sleight of Hand, serve as creative tools to educate readers about the juvenile justice and child welfare systems, illustrating how caring adults make a significant difference in a young person’s life.


• The character of Alex in Sleight of Hand, who experiences 64 placements, highlights the systemic issues facing youth in foster care and the importance of wraparound services.


• Vicki introduces the concept of “automatic adult responses” and stresses the value of reframing interactions with youth, drawing on insights from expert Charlie Applestein and his approach from No Such Thing as a Bad Kid.


• Pro-social activities, such as music lessons, art therapy, or simple childhood experiences like flying a kite, play a key role in building competencies and self-worth for vulnerable youth.


• Collaboration across systems—child welfare, juvenile justice, and mental health—is vital, as these sectors often serve the same youth but in siloed ways.


• Reed advocates for dual status teams like those in Indiana, which require collaborative planning for youth involved in both child welfare and juvenile justice systems.


• Children in congregate care (group homes or residential placements) are at higher risk for exploitation, making family-based care the preferred model whenever possible.


• Reed calls for greater community engagement, suggesting ways individuals can support youth through fostering, volunteering as court advocates (CASA), or contributing to foster care organizations.

Resources

• Book: Sleight of Hand by Vicki Reed


• Book: The Car Thief by Vicki Reed


• Charlie Applestein: No Such Thing as a Bad Kid


• EHT246: Why You Should Read The Car Thief

Transcript

[00:00:00 ] Sandie: Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast, brought to you by Vanguard University’s Global Center for Women and Justice, here in Orange County, California. I’m Dr. Sandy Morgan, and this is the show where we equip you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in the fight to end human trafficking.

[00:00:22 ] Today I’m thrilled to welcome back Commissioner Vicki Reed. To the show, Vicki has dedicated her career to child welfare and juvenile justice, with over two decades of experience working with system involved youth. She holds a degree in law enforcement and a master’s in criminal justice and has been a strong advocate.

[00:00:48 ] For vulnerable children in both public and private sectors. She has served as a juvenile probation officer, the director of a youth serving agency, and helped shape state level training for child welfare workers in Kentucky beyond her advocacy.

[00:01:11 ] Her service as Juvenile Justice Commissioner of Kentucky. Vicki is also an accomplished author. In her last episode on the podcast number 246, we talked about her novel Car Thief. If you haven’t listened to that episode. I encourage you to check it out because today we’re diving into her latest novel Sleight of hand, which also draws from her extensive experience

[00:01:47 ] Well, commissioner Vicki Reed, it is a delight to have you back on the ending Human Trafficking Podcast.

[00:01:55 ] Vicki: And I’m delighted to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:58 ] Sandie: Since we talked the first time in episode 2 46 about your book, the Car Thief, and what we learned there about juvenile justice. You’ve written another book you’ve served as. The Kentucky Commissioner of Juvenile Justice, and I’m excited to ask you some questions today about your experience. first of all, I wanna know why you decided to come out of retirement and become the commissioner. Well,

[00:02:32 ] Vicki: an interesting story because probably nobody was more surprised than I was. I had been retired for a number of years and was really enjoying. consulting and writing and, and speaking and just having my own time to do things. But, when the position came open, I just really was sort of a calling to, to be able to take the, the top position and I’d worked in the agency before, underneath.

[00:02:55 ] And so to be able to have that, that top position and do all the things that I had always. Wanted to see done was just too good an opportunity to, to pass up. and so it was a, it was a wonderful experience. It was difficult in many ways. And I did learn that you can’t always do what you wanna do because you run into, uh, many issues.

[00:03:14 ] And one of the big problems right now across the entire nation, maybe the entire world. is it’s very difficult to get staff now so that if you don’t have staff that really sort of inhibits how much programming you can do and how much counseling you can do.

[00:03:27 ] So, it, it was an interesting experience and I promised to do it through, through the end of one term and I did. And so I’ve retired again and gone back and that’s when I finished, the second book and now I’m doing some consulting work with the National Partnership for Juvenile Services.

[00:03:41 ] Sandie: So let’s talk about the difference between juvenile justice and criminal justice, adults and youth. What are the different goals?

[00:03:52 ] Vicki: Well with adult corrections, you know, the, one of the primary things, of course, is public safety, and it’s not that juvenile justice doesn’t have that as well, but there’s a certain, punitive, point with adult corrections that we try to avoid. With, with juvenile. And one of the reasons is that it doesn’t work.

[00:04:11 ] Uh, we’ve seen that, you know, do you remember all the bootcamp hysteria? Everybody was having bootcamps. Oh, boot, straighten up fly rights and discipline. We’ll put that kid, they’ll learn that, you know, whatever. And then they did the studies and the recidivism rate was out the roof. It was like 80 to 90% scared straight, a complete failure.

[00:04:29 ] It, all these things that feel good and sound good to folks, but actually when they do the studies. Just don’t work. So what we do know is the more rehabilitative, you know, mental health counseling, pro-social activities, resources, a good education. And the other thing with the kids is if you have a, a 17, 16, 17-year-old who.

[00:04:50 ] Ends into a life of crime and does it for the next 40, 50, 60 years. You’re spending millions and millions of dollars on that individual. Where if we can, you know, get them going right in, in their teenage years and they can go on and graduate, they get a job, they, whatever, they become a functioning part of our society.

[00:05:09 ] everybody wins.

[00:05:11 ] Sandie: That’s a good point. This is a a smart fiscal decision too,

[00:05:16 ] Vicki: If you wanna look at it just in the hard cold facts that that alone.

[00:05:21 ] Sandie: But in reality, these. Are young people and they’re valuable and we’re not going, they’re not going to become throwaways, which, I’ve talked to kids who feel like they are throwaways. So let’s talk about the difference between your two books, because they’re a great way to.

[00:05:45 ] Begin to understand how we take care of kids with special circumstances. They may be living in an abusive environment, a neglect environment, which is abusive, and for their safety for their. Health, they are taken out of the home. So first, usually we see they go into child welfare and are pr