Elsa talks us through her new role as the spiritual care lead and some of her hopes for the role. Elsa breaks down and simplifies what the word ‘spirituality’ means, what it can look like in a modern world and why it can be important in the context of mental health and healing.

The definition of spirituality mentioned references the work of Canda, Edward (2008) Spiritual connections in social work: boundary Violations and transcendence. Journal of Religion and spirituality in social work 27. 25-40.

This episode also mentions “My Beautiful Psychosis: Making Sense of Madness” by Emma Goude. Check it out here: https://emmagoude.com/books-2/#.ZdvvPnZByUk

Come and listen with:

Lucy (She/Her) – A big fan of pickleball, ice cream and storytelling

Rachel (She/Her) – Social Worker, Dialogical Practitioner, mad footy fan and wildly passionate about transforming the culture of mental health services to be person-led and human rights informed.

Incredible artwork @sharleencu_art

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT – A search for meaning

[00:00:01 ] Lucy: This podcast has conversations around different mental health experiences that may be distressing for some people. If that doesn’t feel like something you want to explore today, you might want to visit another podcast and come back to us another time.

[00:00:14 ] Rachel: discovery college acknowledges the traditional owners of country throughout Australia and recognises their continuing connection to lands, waters and community. We pay our respects to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures and to the elders, past and present. They have never ceded sovereignty.

[00:00:32 ] Lucy: In this podcast, we share stories that help us learn from each other, connect us and inspire growth. We want to acknowledge that this way of being, of coming together to share knowledge and stories, is a tradition that has already existed on this land for hundreds of thousands of years as a part of the culture of First Nations people.

[00:00:51 ] Rachel: discovery college acknowledges the views shared in this podcast are about mental health experiences, but are not a substitute for professional mental health advice and support. The views in this podcast are not the views of Alfred Health, but are the views of the individuals we’ve had conversations with.

[00:01:07 ] Lucy: The stories we share on this podcast aren’t just stories, but memories of the people who have bravely shared their experiences with us. Remember to take care of yourself as you listen, as well as to take care of the stories that you hear.

[00:01:33 ] Rachel: Extremely Human is a conversation about the profound experience of extreme states. When we speak about extreme states, we want to explore a more humanistic way to understand people’s experiences that aren’t always shared by others.

[00:01:47 ] Lucy: Each extreme state holds different meaning for each person, including those related to psychosis, depression, grief and addiction. As we chat with a variety of humans, we explore the important question how can we respond to distress with greater compassion and humanity?

[00:02:05 ] Rachel: In this episode, we talk with Elsa. Elsa talks us through her new role as the spiritual care lead and some of her hopes for the role. Elsa breaks down and simplifies what the word spirituality means, what it can look like in a modern world, and why it can be important in the context of mental health and healing.

[00:02:35 ] Lucy: Thanks for joining us today, Elsa. Are you able to tell us a little bit about yourself for those who don’t know who you are?

[00:02:42 ] Elsa: Yeah, sure, I suppose in a work context. I work for the Alfred. I’ve been working on the inpatient unit at the Alfred Hospital for Mental Health and I just recently finished my role there as a allied health principal and I’m starting a new role in July as the mental health and spiritual well being worker. I’m also a mum of three teenagers, married and live locally, so that’s a bit about my personal life. I also do some voluntary work with young people.

So, yeah, that’s a little bit about me.

[00:03:29 ] Rachel: We’ve been asking everybody who, at the start of each episode, the same question. I wonder, Elsa, if you can think of a time you or someone you know have had a disproportionate reaction to.

[00:03:41 ]Elsa: Yeah, well, yeah. The one I thought about was probably because I’ve been visiting family and I’d gone to Dublin, and because I knew I was going to see my family, I was going to surprise my mum and dad. I wanted to do something special. So I was like, I need to get something that’s Irish. And so I bought a couple of presents for my parents. I got my dad, like, a peaked hat, sort of made in Ireland, like, it’s authentic. And I tried to get something for my Mum that was equivalent, and I got her this scarf that was also made in Ireland.

And it all seemed quite sort of legit and authentic, and I was just really excited about it. And I get quite excited about seeing people happy or probably over.

I don’t know, I just do a bit of, like, a bit of a dance and a bit of a. And I remember giving it to my parents, and my Mum’s reaction to the scarf was like, oh, isn’t it great? And I was just, like, making it, like, trying to sort of make it better than it was, I suppose. But for me, it was just so meaningful and stuff like that. And I was just like a child.

I sometimes look at myself and reflect, and I go, why are you so excited over something so simple? And the reaction from someone is, like, a bit disappointing. And I think it’s their reactions that kind of stop me or people’s reactions to my sort of.

[00:05:20 ] Lucy: We are here to talk about extreme states. That’s the overarching theme of the podcast. We just wanted to ask you what that meant for you in your life or in your role, because it’s a bit of a broad term and people interpret it in different ways. But when you think of extreme states, what comes to mind for you?

[00:05:39 ] Elsa: If I had to define it, I’d say it can be unpredictable and it can surprise you.

It’s often, in my opinion, a response to something that is an event, or whether it’s a sad event or exciting event that maybe lacks control sometimes. And I think sometimes extreme states can surprise us, and sometimes it can be a learning experience as well. When you go through that, is there a real definition about it? Sorry, I’m just interested.

[00:06:16 ] Rachel: I think it’s often used as an alternative to medicalised language around things like psychosis or other extreme states that are sometimes referred to as symptoms or explained through disorders.

[00:06:34 ] Elsa: Yeah, I suppose things that aren’t perceived as normal is an extreme state, I suppose. But I’d also question what is normal?

[00:06:45 ] Rachel: I don’t know if it’s perceived as. I think maybe what we’re trying, the use of a term like extreme states is trying to say they are normal. Their responses to experiences or things that happen for humans. So they’re kind of extreme psychological distress, perhaps. So we’re trying to actually mean they’re quite human responses to different life events or different experiences or different experiences of ourself.

[00:07:21 ] Elsa: Yeah, I think especially when working with others or talking to others. And when I think about sort of the conversations I’ve had, I don’t know about you, but sometimes you think, oh, why is that person feeling so upset about that? Or like expressing that way and themselves in that way? And I think we do need to remember that there’s so much that might be different and that we are different, we are individuals, we will respond differently.

And that example I gave about me being excited and my family not being as excited or whatever, I think the problem is sometimes we make apology for feeling those ways. But maybe it’s actually okay just for them to feel the way they did in terms of their response. And it’s also okay for me to have felt excited about something that maybe they didn’t feel as excited about. Because for me it was meaningful in a different way. Like, I spent a bit of time thinking about it and I went to quite a few shops and it took me a few days to decide on what I was going to do. I didn’t give them that context, but that’s why I was excited. Maybe that’s why I was like, this is meaningful. But they didn’t get that context. They just got me giving them a gift.

And I think sometimes we sort of judge that response that what we experiencing but what we haven’t understood is the meaning behind it or what’s gone on for that person. And I think that is actually sort of quite relevant. And we don’t always spend that time asking or understanding.

And I think if we did, then maybe we’d be just as excited or just as upset or whatever. I think there is something about that sort of understanding or just being with that person and connecting with that person. That’s what’s so important.

[00:09:28 ] Lucy: We’re all just off in our little individual realities, our little bubbles.

[00:09:33 ] Rachel: Individual realities.

[00:09:33 ] Lucy: Sometimes they join in.

[00:09:35 ] Rachel: Gosh, I like that.

[00:09:37 ] Lucy: Yeah, but I’m also really interested to hear about your new role. I remember opening up the email saying that you’d gotten the