Dario Amodei joins John Collison to talk about Anthropic's growth to ~$5 billion in ARR, how AI models show capitalistic impulses, predictions for an agentic future, the economics of model businesses, and the 19th-century concept of vitalism.

Full episode transcript on Substack: https://cheekypint.substack.com/p/a-cheeky-pint-with-anthropic-ceo

Timestamps

(00:00 ) Intro

(00:50 ) Working with your sibling

(01:43 ) Building Anthropic with 7 cofounders

(02:52 ) ~$5 billion in ARR and vertical applications of products

(07:18 ) Developing a platform-first company

(10:08 ) Working with the DoD

(11:11 ) Proving skeptics wrong about revenue projections

(13:13 ) Capitalistic impulses of AI models

(15:43 ) AI market structure and players

(16:56 ) AI models as standalone P&Ls

(20:48 ) The data wall and styles of learning

(22:20 ) AI talent wars

(26:04 ) Pitching Anthropic’s API business to investors

(27:49 ) Cloud providers vs. AI labs

(29:05 ) AI customization and Claude for enterprise

(33:01 ) Dwarkesh’s take on limitations

(36:12 ) 19th-century notion of vitalism

(37:27 ) AI in medicine, customer service, and taxes

(40:59 ) How to solve for hallucinations

(42:41 ) The double-standard for AI mistakes

(44:14 ) Evolving from researcher to CEO

(46:59 ) Designing AGI-pilled products

(47:57 ) AI-native UIs

(50:09 ) Model progress and building products

(52:22 ) Open-source models

(54:43 ) Keeping Anthropic AGI-pilled

(57:11 ) AI advancements vs. safety regulations

(01:02:04 ) How Dario uses AI