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Rich Dad Radio Show: In-Your-Face Advice on Investing, Personal Finance, & Starting a BusinessAnyone Can Turn $1,000 Into $45,000 Doing This…
Rich Dad Radio Show: In-Your-Face Advice on Investing, Personal Finance, & Starting a BusinessAnyone Can Turn $1,000 Into $45,000 Doing This…
Anyone Can Turn $1,000 Into $45,000 Doing This…
Update: 2024-12-24
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Check this out! 👉 www.richdadandbrent.com
In this episode, Brent Daniels sits down with Mark Stubler and Cody Hofhine from Joe Homebuyer to reveal the secrets behind flipping real estate and finding deals no one else knows about.
Mark and Cody share their journey from their first deals to running a business that generates millions of dollars annually. Whether you're new to real estate investing or looking to level up, you’ll learn:
-How to find off-market deals using unique marketing strategies like direct mail.
-The difference between flipping, wholesaling, and buy-and-hold strategies—and when to use each.
-Why “imperfect action” is the key to success in real estate (and life).
-Pro tips on estimating renovation costs and maximizing profits on every deal.
-What 2025 could look like for real estate investors—and why NOW might be the perfect time to start.
If you’re serious about financial freedom and want to learn how to find the “deal of a lifetime” every week, this episode is packed with actionable advice.
In this episode, Brent Daniels sits down with Mark Stubler and Cody Hofhine from Joe Homebuyer to reveal the secrets behind flipping real estate and finding deals no one else knows about.
Mark and Cody share their journey from their first deals to running a business that generates millions of dollars annually. Whether you're new to real estate investing or looking to level up, you’ll learn:
-How to find off-market deals using unique marketing strategies like direct mail.
-The difference between flipping, wholesaling, and buy-and-hold strategies—and when to use each.
-Why “imperfect action” is the key to success in real estate (and life).
-Pro tips on estimating renovation costs and maximizing profits on every deal.
-What 2025 could look like for real estate investors—and why NOW might be the perfect time to start.
If you’re serious about financial freedom and want to learn how to find the “deal of a lifetime” every week, this episode is packed with actionable advice.
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Transcript
00:00:00
This is The Rich Dad Radio Show, the good news and bad news about flipping real estate.
00:00:06
Here's your host, Brent Daniels.
00:00:11
Welcome back to The Rich Dad Radio Show, where we're talking about the good news and the bad news about flipping real estate.
00:00:18
I'm your host, Brent Daniels, and we know here that the deal of a lifetime comes around about once a week.
00:00:26
So let's go find it.
00:00:29
Today's show is absolutely incredible.
00:00:32
I've got Mark Stubler and Cody Hafein from Joe Homebuyer.
00:00:35
They've been in business for over 10 years.
00:00:38
They do 100 deals a year, and they're going to show you how to go out and find deals that nobody else knows about using a interesting marketing technique.
00:00:48
So strap in, get ready, and here we go.
00:00:51
Welcome Cody Hafein and Mark Stubler with Joe Homebuyer.
00:00:56
How are you guys?
00:00:57
I'm doing all of a sudden.
00:00:59
It's always good to see your energy, fill your energy, and we're excited to be here.
00:01:03
Hey, any chance I can hang out with you, Brent?
00:01:05
Just send me up.
00:01:06
I'm a part of that, so I appreciate you having us on, brother.
00:01:09
Well, good.
00:01:10
Well, let's dive right in.
00:01:11
Cody, when did you get into real estate?
00:01:14
Oh, when I failed at insurance, my friend is the short answer, but 2015 was probably different time.
00:01:27
However, it's probably the same story as many of those that are listening can probably relate to.
00:01:34
And that is 2015.
00:01:35
I'm five years into insurance, like just selling home and auto policies.
00:01:40
And I come home early from work, and I wanted to surprise my wife, but instead she surprises me because she's at the dinner table crying.
00:01:49
And she's wondering, do we put food on the table to feed our kids?
00:01:53
Or, and not in this hate towards world, anything like that.
00:01:57
She was just, she was just feeling it.
00:01:59
She's like, this is stressful.
00:02:01
Or do we put food towards the mortgage?
00:02:03
I mean, that was a reality I had to hit.
00:02:05
It was a money, not the food.
00:02:09
Yeah, not the food.
00:02:10
Sorry.
00:02:11
If I said food towards the mortgage, they don't take that anymore.
00:02:13
That's a form of payment.
00:02:15
They don't do anymore.
00:02:17
Back in 2015, they did.
00:02:18
No, just kidding.
00:02:20
But yes, it was, it was, it was that is one or the other.
00:02:23
We were still having some rough months.
00:02:25
And two days later, I go to a local real estate investor association.
00:02:28
I only, guys, I went there for five years, Brent, five years.
00:02:32
And I could care less to have listened to real estate.
00:02:34
I was going there for one purpose, like, I'm a one track guy was just to listen.
00:02:38
Who has rentals?
00:02:39
So I can go up to him and say, Hey, I've got an insurance product for you.
00:02:42
Like that, well, that will save you money.
00:02:43
And that's all I heard for five years.
00:02:45
And everyone was talking about wholesaling rentals, flips, all this stuff real estate.
00:02:48
And I was just like, in one ear and one out the other.
00:02:51
But I went with a different set of ears that time.
00:02:53
So in 2015, I go two days later after seeing my wife cry.
00:02:56
And it was perfect timing because I go in there and this guy stands up and he says, I found this deal where I put the home under contract.
00:03:03
And I whole sold it.
00:03:05
And I made $29,000 and I did it in three days.
00:03:07
And I'm like, what?
00:03:09
Like what is this new magic trick that you're talking about?
00:03:13
And so I went up and talked to him and got enough knowledge and understanding.
00:03:17
And it pointed me to go find and search out a mentor.
00:03:20
And I did that 39 days later, I did my first deal that paid me $24,000 and it was like game over at that point.
00:03:27
So that's kind of the starting point, 2015, and that was why I got into it.
00:03:32
How did you find that first deal?
00:03:35
So that was direct mail of all things.
00:03:39
So it was, it was hiring, like I said, this mentor.
00:03:43
And he just kind of showed me lists, like get your hands on these lists.
00:03:47
And at that time, it wasn't, I think it's more automated now.
00:03:51
And there's definitely some service providers out there that get you a lot easier.
00:03:54
I had to physically go down to the state buildings, like the courthouses and pull some of these lists.
00:04:00
And maybe that's what made it uniquely hot back then too.
00:04:03
Like it was just, you had to go out and you had to like put your sweat into it to find these lists.
00:04:09
And sometimes these state office buildings, they would be like, no, that list doesn't exist.
00:04:15
And I get back on the phone with the mentor and I'm like, hey, they say this list doesn't exist.
00:04:18
No, it exists.
00:04:19
You go in there and you find out something like a Diet Coke, whatever it is, like that list exists.
00:04:23
They have it.
00:04:24
So I'd go in there and then I just over time they're like, this idiot keeps coming back because I wouldn't give up.
00:04:28
I did trust the process.
00:04:29
I'm not someone that gives up easy.
00:04:31
But it was like, man, I had to go into some of these courthouses three or four or five times or state departments and go in there three or four times before they're like, oh, yeah, we have that list.
00:04:39
I'm like, it's not the same thing I just said, like four times ago.
00:04:42
And anyways, yeah, that's how I got my hands on my first list.
00:04:46
And it's just like there's probate lists.
00:04:49
There was tax, the linkant list.
00:04:51
There was all these different lists that you could pull.
00:04:53
And I just started making sure that I could sell our lists.
00:04:55
Yes.
00:04:56
Yes.
00:04:57
Anything that showed like a distressed home or a distressed seller.
00:05:00
Got it.
00:05:01
Yeah.
00:05:02
These are where you want to target as a real estate investor.
00:05:04
If you're looking for off-market opportunities, these aren't sellers that have put it on the market with the real estate agent and everybody sees it.
00:05:13
These are before they go and put it on the market or oftentimes what we have found.
00:05:18
And you guys can speak to this as well as a lot of people don't want a list with a real estate agent.
00:05:24
They don't want to put it on the market.
00:05:26
They just want speed and convenience.
00:05:28
And they just want to have a private sale with a real estate investor that's going to come and give them a cash as his offer.
00:05:35
They don't want to put any more money into the property nor oftentimes they don't have the money to put into these properties.
00:05:42
And so they just want to get rid of this property as soon as possible and that's where we come in.
00:05:47
And so that's what you're talking about.
00:05:49
You went to the courthouses and you were able to get these lists.
00:05:54
And by the way, this is public data.
00:05:56
This is public information, right?
00:05:57
When you owe money, it's like the old school days.
00:06:00
They would put your name up on a big post in the middle of town, right?
00:06:04
Well, now they just put you on a list somewhere and that's the list that Cody's talking about.
00:06:08
There is pre-for-closure lists.
00:06:11
There is tax delinquent.
00:06:12
You don't pay your property taxes list.
00:06:14
There's code violations.
00:06:16
If you're not taking care of the outside of the property, you're going to get code violations from the city or the township or wherever that's coming from the municipalities.
00:06:26
It doesn't matter.
00:06:27
All that stuff, right?
00:06:28
And so these are all out there for us to be able to go, oh, okay, well, I don't want to go after every house, every house is not who I should be spending the majority of my time with.
00:06:39
I should be going after these homes that have their hand raised that say, hey, I've got some signs of distress here.
00:06:44
Is that right, Mark?
00:06:46
Yeah, that's my take as well, Brian.
00:06:49
These list, pre-for-closure, these are families that can benefit from your services because there's an event occurring.
00:06:55
There's something, depending event, there's a need for our services to provide a solution for the property to help them transition to the next phase of their life.
00:07:05
And so we find that, yeah, by focusing on those right lists, it saves you the right time and energy.
00:07:12
And you can really focus on families that can benefit from your service.
00:07:15
So what would you send?
00:07:16
So everybody listening to this that's like, oh, my gosh, I want to find the deal of a lifetime.
00:07:22
And our saying is the deal of a lifetime comes around about once a week, right?
00:07:26
It's an old Dolph DeRusse where he wrote Rich Dad's book on Real Estate Riches way back in the early 2000s.
00:07:34
He would say the deal of a lifetime comes around once a week, right?
00:07:37
It's on us to go and have the conversations with the property owner and make the offers.
00:07:42
So Mark, if you were to send out some mail and you do send out mail, what do you send?
00:07:47
And what is the process there to have people call you when they're ready to sell their house?
00:07:52
I like direct mail for that reason, they do call us, right?
00:07:57
That increases the probability that they're ready to work with you if they're making a call to you.
00:08:02
So that's the first thing you have to have a mindset that, hey, they're calling me, they're probably some value I can provide here.
00:08:07
We like to focus on those, those specialty lists, like you mentioned, pro-weight eviction, those to default, absentee, vacant, anything where the probability is increased, right?
00:08:16
That they can benefit from our services.
00:08:19
And then it's just the process of being extremely responsive and service minded to those that reach out and just standing out.
00:08:26
When I started, you know, about the same time as Cody, in fact, Cody was the one that actually introduced the idea to me, he was having some traction.
00:08:34
I don't think he failed real insurance, but he realized that there was a better way and he was willing to share it with me.
00:08:41
And so, you know, 10 years ago he says, hey, you ought to consider this.
00:08:44
So I went and did my own activities for a minute and then we partnered up.
00:08:47
And my only experience, Brent, was, you know, sales.
00:08:51
I worked with lots of families selling fencing and decking products.
00:08:54
Nothing to do with real estate, but that's not true, actually, about three years before that I tried and failed on a rehab.
00:09:01
I couldn't even sell it after I put enough money to, so I had to keep it as a rental just to, so I didn't lose money because I couldn't afford to lose money, so my only option was to keep it as a rental.
00:09:10
Anyway, fast forward, Cody and I now have been doing it for several years, but what I did take with me from my fencing and decking days from the sales is that a service mind, you know,
00:09:20
kind of a heart for the seller type of mindset of building a plan, a solution, being mindful of them, a servant mindset, it just translates well, you know, that desire to help them come up with a plan that will help them transition their life.
00:09:32
And it's the most enjoyable aspect of it, providing meaningful value for the people you're working with.
00:09:37
It's been fun.
00:09:38
I love it.
00:09:39
So what do we, what do we send them, Mark?
00:09:41
Give us the, give us the nitty gritty, we get this list and there's a million things that we can send them.
00:09:47
Do we send them a handwritten note that says, Hey, I want to buy your house.
00:09:50
Do we send them a postcard?
00:09:51
Do we send them a letter?
00:09:53
What works to get people to call us when they want to sell us their, these houses that need significant renovations?
00:10:00
The answer to that question, Brent is yes, because you do it all.
00:10:05
We've done it all.
00:10:06
In the early days, we actually printed it up ourselves, put a stamp on it ourselves and even occasionally would hand write it.
00:10:11
But now you're strung line, especially you can, yeah, postcards at a default is the simplest action that one can take and it's just a simple message.
00:10:18
We like to have it as a handwritten as you're looking for a tactical response to your question that we like it because it captures the eye when somebody sees, even though it's computer generated handwritten, it just captures the eye and it's just a simple message,
00:10:31
hey, would you consider it an offer on your property at eight, you know, one to three main street type idea?
00:10:36
And it's just the idea that if you're getting something in their hands to really just reach out to the people that say, raise their hand and say, yes, I consider something, I'd like to learn more about this opportunity,
00:10:47
this process.
00:10:48
Letters, even very frequently an offer, an actual check that you can send out to them.
00:10:55
So there's a lot of different activities you can do, but at the minimum, the answer is yes, because a handwritten, a sticky note on their door, a postcard, a letter, they all work.
00:11:04
That's very consistent with them.
00:11:07
Awesome.
00:11:08
Cody, when you close that deal, what'd you make on your first deal?
00:11:11
$24,000, I remember, like it was yesterday, it was a big day.
00:11:15
How did that, how did that feel, how did, how did your wife feel, how did the family feel?
00:11:21
I mean, was that the turning point?
00:11:22
I mean, did you just go, you know what?
00:11:25
This is my life now.
00:11:26
I mean, this, this is the path that I want to go on.
00:11:29
I finally found it because it took me a long time to figure this out, right?
00:11:33
Do I be a real estate agent, do I flip houses, do I just start building a rental portfolio, you know, do I, and then I found, then I discovered what wholesaling is,
00:11:44
which is essentially assigning a contract.
00:11:46
You're, you're not flipping a house, you're flipping the purchase agreement, which we can get into in just a bit, because this audience here may not know exactly what that is, but once you discovered that you could go and flip a house that you don't own and make $24,000,
00:12:04
what happens in your brain?
00:12:05
No, well, first and foremost, you pinch yourself, like you genuinely pinch yourself, you're like, this is real, not only did it happen, it happened for Cody Hoffheim, right?
00:12:15
You save us a lot, Brent, and I've always loved it, and I've used it often.
00:12:18
You always say it turns from faith to fact, right?
00:12:21
At that moment, when it turns into fact, it's game over at that point, at least for me, maybe it's not everyone's mindset.
00:12:27
My mindset was, when it works for me, oh, let's double down.
00:12:30
It's not let up.
00:12:31
It's not like go celebrate.
00:12:33
It was, let's double down like, let's have faith in the process, like the process works.
00:12:37
No more faith.
00:12:38
The fact is, the process works.
00:12:39
Now I'm just going to double down my effort, so I didn't hesitate.
00:12:42
I took probably 15 of that $24,000, and I threw it right back into marketing because I was like, I just want more deals, like, I don't want to just slow roll this and do like two or three grand a week or a month,
00:12:52
like, let's, let's really ramp this baby up, and I went to like 15 grand, like instantly, and just started doing that over the first month, and so I ramped up marketing really quick because I believed the process.
00:13:04
I think that's the first thing.
00:13:06
Second of all is just, I was still in perfect taking this action.
00:13:11
I wasn't an expert at this point.
00:13:12
I mean, I've done my first deal.
00:13:14
I was far from it, but if there's anything I say, I'm an expert at, it's failing my way forward.
00:13:20
I'm willing to go out there and stumble my way forward, and we've talked about this our home tire careers together, is how important that actually plays a role.
00:13:27
There's a point in time where when you want to turn it into a business, how you need some processes and systems in place, but at the beginning, imperfect action, trumps, like trumps,
00:13:38
systems and processes, it eats it for lunch.
00:13:42
So it's just getting out of there and getting out of your own way, and I think for many listening, if you're listening to this, you're like, what's my next move?
00:13:49
Just have enough information to take your next step and don't attach yourself to the how, the more we attach ourselves to the how, the more we're trying to build out of perfect plans and perfect plans don't exist.
00:14:00
You just need enough information to take the next step and go take that step.
00:14:04
Are you going to do it perfectly?
00:14:05
Are you going to make mistakes?
00:14:06
Absolutely.
00:14:07
I sounded like an absolute idiot on many, many appointments, but that was my best coach.
00:14:13
Even my mentor couldn't have taught me what I taught myself by just stumbling through a bad appointment.
00:14:18
So that's one thing I've committed to that I say I'm an expert at.
00:14:22
I'm an expert at committing to making a lot of mistakes because those mistakes add up to be my best coach, which ends up being my way of becoming the better version of myself.
00:14:32
Yeah, our really, really good friend, Tom Crowe, that it's not education plus action equals results.
00:14:42
That's the wrong equation.
00:14:44
It is the action plus the results is your education equals the education.
00:14:50
And that's really the biggest difference.
00:14:51
I see in real estate being a real estate entrepreneur, finding the absolute best deals that nobody else knows about.
00:14:59
It is all that massive imperfect action and going out there and letting that educate you because you could read every book.
00:15:06
You could go listen to every podcast, you can watch every YouTube, but until you're face-to-face need to need belly to belly with that seller and they're telling you what they're looking for.
00:15:17
They're telling you the perfect way for them to get out of their situation.
00:15:21
There's nothing like it.
00:15:22
There's nothing like you can't you can't build a business based on theory.
00:15:25
You can't build a business based on hallucinations.
00:15:28
You got to build a business based on actually being in front and having those conversations with property owners.
00:15:34
And I'm telling you, we have we have been around people and we have coached people for the last 10 years, you and I both Cody, that started with no money,
00:15:44
no education, no real estate background, and just started going out knocking on doors, sending out little letters, reaching out to people.
00:15:53
They would just literally go out into the streets.
00:15:54
In any street, anybody could do this.
00:15:56
You could go out in any street and go find in any neighborhood and go find the properties that need some love.
00:16:03
They need renovation.
00:16:04
They've been vacant.
00:16:05
The owners can't take care of them anymore, whatever it is.
00:16:08
You can find those houses that are just to put it bluntly ugly, ugly houses.
00:16:15
And you can go and you can reach out to that property and have a conversation make offers.
00:16:20
And if they're ready to sell that property, you're going to find some unbelievable opportunities.
00:16:24
So Mark, circling back real quick and then we'll move on.
00:16:29
Direct mail.
00:16:30
Who do you like?
00:16:31
Is there a company that you like to work with with that?
00:16:33
It sends it out that has good templates because you're like, yeah, just do a handwritten postcard, it's great.
00:16:38
Well, okay.
00:16:39
What does that mean?
00:16:40
You know what I mean?
00:16:41
Yeah.
00:16:42
And the truth is, Brent, we work with a couple and we work with 3D mail, yellow letters, and a couple others.
00:16:48
And I think at the end of the day, you're looking for somebody that has some good templates and it's easy to work with.
00:16:54
Justin Silbario has a great product, you know, as well.
00:16:59
And so.
00:17:00
Really?
00:17:01
What's his company name?
00:17:02
Justin Silbario.
00:17:03
Justin Silbario.
00:17:04
Justin Silbario.
00:17:05
Justin Silbario.
00:17:06
Justin Silbario.
00:17:07
Yeah.
00:17:08
Justin Silbario.
00:17:09
Yeah.
00:17:10
Justin Silbario.
00:17:11
Yeah.
00:17:12
Justin Silbario.
00:17:13
Yeah.
00:17:14
Justin Silbario.
00:17:15
Yeah.
00:17:16
Yeah.
00:17:17
Justin Silbario.
00:17:18
Yeah.
00:17:19
Yeah.
00:17:20
Justin Silbario.
00:17:21
Yeah.
00:17:22
Yeah.
00:17:23
Yeah.
00:17:24
Awesome.
00:17:25
So they offer a great product as well.
00:17:27
So hopefully our friends in each of those places will receive a little business now.
00:17:30
But he says, "Hey, I'm going to do..."
00:17:32
He just talks about the value of failure and how he's going to do better than most people because he's going to fail more than most.
00:17:38
But he says it's this concept of the you shared with Tom Crowe.
00:17:42
Action plus result equals your education.
00:17:44
He says a little different, but along the same lines, it's test, fail, learn, improve, and reenter.
00:17:52
So just how quickly can you effectively mess up, get the result, and then make the improvement and do it again.
00:18:00
That's the value of education.
00:18:02
But that's a guy I'm making a point.
00:18:04
Yeah, please Cody.
00:18:05
I can say just to like roll on what you're saying because it's even more powerful.
00:18:08
Do people watch this or is this just going to be like an audio?
00:18:11
Both.
00:18:12
Like is it on video format too?
00:18:14
Yep.
00:18:15
Because people see this.
00:18:16
What Mark just said is valuable because it was like eye opener when John did.
00:18:20
He says, like think of it as a circle.
00:18:23
You test, you learn, or you test, you fail, you learn, you improve.
00:18:27
And you reenter.
00:18:29
You test, you fail, you learn, you improve, and you reenter.
00:18:34
So each time for those that can't see what I'm doing, as you reenter your gaining traction, your building up, your improving, you becoming 1% better.
00:18:43
And so that, that, that was the big visual that he wanted.
00:18:47
He even made it so clear.
00:18:48
He's like, no, no, no, put down your pencils.
00:18:50
Look at me when I do this.
00:18:51
And he did that whole thing then reenter.
00:18:53
Did the whole thing and then reenter.
00:18:55
He's like, this is why I'm better than most because I reenter at a faster pace than everyone else.
00:19:02
Love it.
00:19:03
As the, at the time of this recording, we're approaching the new year.
00:19:07
Everybody's putting together their goals for the next year.
00:19:10
Everybody's got those stars in their eyes and electricity coming out of their, their fingers and the fire in their belly.
00:19:16
How do we make sure that the next 12 months is the best financial 12 months that we've ever had?
00:19:24
Oh, best.
00:19:28
So a financial plan for the, for the next 12 months, it just knocked it out.
00:19:32
Yep.
00:19:33
Well, it's, do you want me to take a stab at a first year coding?
00:19:37
Sure.
00:19:38
Here's what we do with our own company.
00:19:41
And we just got off a call doing this.
00:19:44
And it was like, it was a heated call.
00:19:46
Like, we're trying to figure out our own goals, right?
00:19:49
I got heated up.
00:19:50
Like, oh my gosh.
00:19:51
Here's what I'm trying to do, but I'm trying to figure this out, right?
00:19:53
So it's not a perfect, well, there's a perfect science behind it.
00:19:56
But what's beautiful is the conflict is a great thing.
00:19:59
So it is coming up with a year.
00:20:02
And most people really overshoot what they can do in a year, but undershoot what they can do in like three to five.
00:20:08
We hear that all the time.
00:20:09
And so it's getting something that is smart.
00:20:13
And that would be specific, measurable, attainable.
00:20:17
And then relevant and then time bound, right?
00:20:21
So it's a smart goal.
00:20:23
And we make sure that you do something that pushes you, that stretches you, right?
00:20:28
The law of the rubber band, like John Maxwell says, the rubber band is only useful when it's stretched.
00:20:33
And that's the same thing with us.
00:20:35
We're only useful when we're stretched.
00:20:37
So push some goals that stretch you.
00:20:40
And then break it down quarterly.
00:20:42
And so we like to break ours down.
00:20:44
And you can find this in a in a format called EOS.
00:20:47
Entrepreneurs operating system.
00:20:50
And that is you break them down in 90 in quarterly, right?
00:20:53
So you break them down in your quarters.
00:20:55
And then you set your goals.
00:20:57
They would call them rocks.
00:20:58
You set your goals on what's going to happen as a company.
00:21:02
And then with those goals, the company goals, you're going to break it down to individual goals.
00:21:07
Who's going to hold what?
00:21:09
And to be able to what everyone needs to do so that these, these company goals get hit for the 90 days.
00:21:15
So we were just on a call literally right before we push play here.
00:21:19
We were getting off our hour and a half meeting, our 90 minute meeting with our level 10, going over specifically this to end the quarter strong, but then start next year.
00:21:29
And it's just making sure you're always moving the needle.
00:21:32
And it's making sure that you're always, they call IDS, identify, discuss, and the solutions.
00:21:40
It's identifying the right problems to even have a goal set around.
00:21:43
So sometimes if you're like, you might set some wrong goals.
00:21:46
You might say, hey, you know what, we need more deals.
00:21:49
So we need to need more marketing.
00:21:51
Well, if you don't really spend some time really in that idea, like going through that, you may be solving the wrong problem.
00:21:58
So it's making sure we're always solving the right problem.
00:22:01
And not just because it may not be that you don't need marketing.
00:22:04
It may be that how you manage your lead.
00:22:06
And we may want to talk about this on the show.
00:22:08
It's when those leads come in that we're managing those leads well.
00:22:12
That can also increase our income.
00:22:14
More times we think more, just more marketing, more marketing.
00:22:17
That's going to make all the difference.
00:22:18
And it's going to make us more money.
00:22:19
And it's usually less about adding more as much as measuring your current data.
00:22:26
And just finding ways within your management of your lead.
00:22:29
That can increase that.
00:22:30
So I don't, I hope I gave something that made sense there.
00:22:34
But the whole point is break it down in 90 days.
00:22:36
Give every give your company rocks that we're going to accomplish over the 90 days.
00:22:40
Have individual rocks or individual goals that each of you are going to attack.
00:22:43
And then make sure you're always solving the right problem.
00:22:46
And not just creating or making solutions for problems that don't even exist.
00:22:49
It may not be a marketing problem.
00:22:50
It's probably a management of a lead problem.
00:22:53
I would only add to that Cody.
00:22:55
When you do reverse engineered in that way to identify the daily tasks that you have to do.
00:23:00
That we're going to effectively get you to the monthly, the quarterly, the yearly target that you're trying to hit.
00:23:05
And you read engineered that way or reverse engineered that way.
00:23:09
So that your daily tasks are the leading activities.
00:23:12
And if they're done consistently, we'll give you the results that you want at the end.
00:23:15
And so the five non, you know, like the non the daily non negotiables that you have to execute on religiously for us.
00:23:24
We really push hard with our franchise ease that they're talking the new sellers every single day.
00:23:29
So depending on the market, whatever, but is five is a ten new seller.
00:23:33
So if you're coming through your pipeline, that's not a new seller.
00:23:36
Talking with buyers, so adding to your relationships with your buyers is that five is that ten is that 50 to the up to call a day.
00:23:44
But the non negotiables are I'm talking to sellers every day, I'm talking to buyers every day.
00:23:48
Am I going on five at a minimum five appointments a week?
00:23:52
So those first two activities should get you on more appointments, right?
00:23:56
How many pages of personal development?
00:23:59
Because listen, if you're not invested in personal development, which includes, you know, all aspects.
00:24:05
The people you surround yourself with, what do you ingest?
00:24:08
What is rubbing off on your activities?
00:24:11
And then intentionally what you're bringing in to get your mind right.
00:24:15
So is it your daily non negotiable of five pages of personal development reading or, you know, five minutes of meditation in the morning and evening?
00:24:22
You've got to establish your non negotiables every day.
00:24:25
Because those are the leading activities that will afford you the lagging results, which are, you know, the contracts that revenue this success.
00:24:34
You weren't a lot better, my friend.
00:24:37
Well, you compliment, I would have just said my answer.
00:24:42
It actually complimented the big picture that you started with 12 months reverse engineering and then it's those daily habits.
00:24:48
It really is.
00:24:49
So, so let's look at this past year for you guys.
00:24:53
How, how, how was business in 2024?
00:24:57
Do you guys hit your goals?
00:24:59
Did you guys, when you look back and reflect back, right?
00:25:02
Because we can do this now.
00:25:05
When you're looking back, did you hit them and what were those goals and what really surprised you this year?
00:25:10
Because you guys do multiple millions in income every year.
00:25:14
That's, I probably should have opened with that.
00:25:16
That probably would have grabbed more people to really listen to this because you guys really are doing amazing things in a couple of different markets.
00:25:25
Mostly your base at Assault Lake and a very competitive market.
00:25:28
There's a lot of regulations in real estate there.
00:25:31
They're very tight with the ways that you have to do things.
00:25:34
So you have to, everything is very specific and ordered and it's not like the Wild West, like in some other areas.
00:25:41
So it's one of the toughest markets and you guys are really, you guys have risen to the top over the last few years.
00:25:47
So what did this year shake out income wise?
00:25:51
Yeah, great question.
00:25:55
So actually, let me rewind to the, we came up with a plan about this time, right?
00:25:57
The fall, the winner of 2023, we're looking, what do we want to accomplish in 24?
00:26:01
We actually determined a Brent that we wanted to, we weren't so much worried about top line revenue as we were determined this year.
00:26:08
More than any other year, we wanted to improve our profitability.
00:26:11
So we actually dissected the entire 2023 and all the results and we determined that there was really two major functions that produced most of the revenue for us.
00:26:20
Our market channels, which was PPC and very targeted direct mail.
00:26:25
So they'll do the two biggest, but we understood that we also want to have a product about reach.
00:26:30
So we kept the code calling going, but again, just a targeted less at a lower volume.
00:26:35
And our whole focus was, we want to create more with less as it relates to the market.
00:26:40
So very specifically, are we on target in our goal?
00:26:42
We've got to finish this month strong, but what's most impressive is it's not our biggest top line revenue year.
00:26:48
Yes, our target is several million every year, but our profitability is very healthy.
00:26:53
So we're encouraged by what we're bringing in relative to what we're spending.
00:26:57
We realize that we want to do it with the less personnel.
00:26:59
We want our labor efficiency to be super attractive.
00:27:01
And we want our ratio of return relative to our expenses to be attractive as well.
00:27:06
And that's what we focused on this year, so that we're actually doing less activities and it's been rewarding.
00:27:11
Yes, we've got a heavy list the next two and a half weeks here, but we're encouraged by the results we have this year.
00:27:17
So what's top line?
00:27:19
So we'll do over two, just in Utah, and then we're million.
00:27:23
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:24
And so how many deals is that guys?
00:27:28
At least about we've ever done.
00:27:31
There's just more profitable deals.
00:27:33
So I think we're now under a hundred.
00:27:35
We used to do over a hundred to do the same revenue.
00:27:39
We're now doing under a hundred deals to get over two million just in Salt Lake City.
00:27:44
Love it.
00:27:47
And that's because you guys are doing more flips than whole sales.
00:27:49
Great question.
00:27:50
Yes.
00:27:51
Go for it.
00:27:52
Go for it, Mark.
00:27:53
And in China at any time.
00:27:55
But yes, we just are really sensitive to how do we extract as much revenue from every day.
00:27:59
So whole selling is still a practice that we do virtually on every or we go through the motions of wholesale virtually on every transaction.
00:28:07
So we'll send it out to our buyer because we're for the right offer.
00:28:09
We're going to assign anything, right?
00:28:11
And if we can get about 80, 75 to 80% of what we make otherwise, we're going to assign it, which sometimes the market affords that when buyers are buying.
00:28:20
Sometimes you just get crazy offers from the buyer pool.
00:28:23
And it just doesn't make sense to rehab it because you're making 75 to 80% of what you make after you rehab it yourself.
00:28:29
Today's market's a little different.
00:28:30
So it has a flow of stance to your questions.
00:28:32
But there's times where it's heavier flip and there's times it's heavier wholesale.
00:28:35
And we're just sensitive to how much what can we methodically do on the exit strategy to be very calculated?
00:28:40
Calculated in our exits, and we're optimizing revenue on every single transaction.
00:28:45
Love it.
00:28:46
So just for anybody that doesn't know, whenever you're looking at an opportunity, there's really three buckets.
00:28:53
There's really three exit strategies that we talk about.
00:28:56
There's a buy and hold.
00:28:57
This is where you buy it and you put it into your portfolio and you keep it as a rental.
00:29:01
There's the buy and flip, which is like HG TV shows, you take a house that's run down and ugly and you have demo day and then you have the design and then it looks beautiful and then you just sell it on the open market.
00:29:14
And then you have the ability to assign your interest in a purchase agreement.
00:29:19
Essentially, when you put together a purchase agreement between a homeowner and yourself, they're the seller, you're the buyer.
00:29:27
You can then reach out to other investors in your area and see if they want to buy that opportunity from you, which means that you would scratch out your name as the buyer, put their name in and they typically pay you a fee anywhere from 10 to 25 to $50,000.
00:29:44
Depending on the deal for the right to be able to buy that property to either keep in their portfolio or to flip.
00:29:51
And that's what Mark's talking about when he's talking about reaching out to the buyers and taking every single deal that comes across their desk and putting it out to the buyers to see what they'll be willing to pay for them not to have to do the remodel themselves.
00:30:05
But when you do the remodel yourselves and the market's not crashing and you can get in and get out of that property within, you know,
00:30:16
three to six month window, the spreads and those are what 50 K 75,000, 100,000, what's your guys average deal size for your flips.
00:30:28
And you have to target in my mind, you've got to make no less than about three times, which is, well, a simpler way to say it, let me tie back in the marketing action.
00:30:39
You really should be targeting a three to four to five X on your marketing dollars.
00:30:43
Well, new talks, crazy competitive.
00:30:45
So if I'm spending, you know, eight to $10,000 just to get one deal, I've got to make 40,000 on average on my revenue.
00:30:52
I've been assigning things for less than that.
00:30:57
I've got to bring the average up by doing rehab, right, so that I'm selling on that number.
00:30:58
But we've been fortunate times where we're, we're approaching six figures as an average on our flips.
00:31:04
You know, I can't really promote that because there's a lot that goes into that where we're very seasoned and we do exceptional.
00:31:11
But here's the fact what, let's talk about all the factors that go into getting a six figure flip.
00:31:16
It's not too thing lucky.
00:31:17
I mean, you got to manage your leads exceptionally well.
00:31:20
It's not too tough, but I even skipped a step already.
00:31:22
You have to be good and consistent at your marketing.
00:31:24
Then you have to manage your leads exceptionally well.
00:31:27
Then there's the acquisition process.
00:31:29
It's building a strong enough plan for sellers that when you're negotiating a price, they sense the value that you're offering it.
00:31:35
That you get the property, a great price.
00:31:37
And then you're not done.
00:31:39
Now you have to execute it.
00:31:39
I love it.
00:31:41
You have to see the vision for the property.
00:31:43
Sure.
00:31:43
Some of them you're going to sign others in order to get anywhere near a six figure on a flip.
00:31:46
You have to execute it at a very high level.
00:31:50
And sometimes one of the things we're doing right now, this, take a note on this.
00:31:51
If you're listening, we're adding a walk out and a kitchen in virtually every home now because with interest rates high and purchase price high, particularly in the very competitive market,
00:32:01
like Utah and not everybody has basements.
00:32:03
But that's the model in our market because now I've got a bigger buyer pool.
00:32:07
And they can afford to pay a little bit more because I will put mom in the basement or I'll put a wrench in the basement.
00:32:11
And they can afford to interest in the payment because of the higher price.
00:32:15
You use the subtleties and you learn over time.
00:32:17
And that's what it is.
00:32:19
It's what it afford just to really stretch value on a rehab.
00:32:22
But it's all those components that equal the six figure.
00:32:26
It's not just you look into a deal.
00:32:28
It's all the activities that compound to help you execute it and optimize revenue.
00:32:33
Well, we make our money when we buy.
00:32:35
Yes.
00:32:36
Right.
00:32:37
Got to buy right.
00:32:38
So understanding the understanding the numbers, understanding the cost per square foot.
00:32:44
I mean, whenever I look at a deal that is under, I would say, 450, 500,000.
00:32:50
Once it's fixed up, I'm anywhere from $35 to $40 a square foot is the estimate that I have for cosmetic, right?
00:32:58
Countertops, cabinets, fixtures, flooring, paint, the baseboards, all that stuff is appliances.
00:33:07
Typically, it's 35 to 40,000.
00:33:10
And then I'll add 10,000 on top or any major items, right?
00:33:14
The plumbing, maybe it has mold issues, maybe the roof needs to be done, maybe the pool needs resurfacing these type of things.
00:33:20
It needs a new boiler, whatever it is, depending on what part of the country you're in.
00:33:23
And so you don't have to really, when you're looking at an opportunity, you can use those numbers.
00:33:29
35 to $40 a square foot plus 10,000 for major items to put together an estimate on how much it'll cost to rehab that property.
00:33:39
Do you guys agree with that?
00:33:41
Yes, great.
00:33:42
Yeah, that's the model.
00:33:44
And when you get really good, you find contractors and things, you can keep that cost down and you start to assess it.
00:33:49
But you're right, if you want to be, that's a very strategic way to assess a rehab to keep yourself out of trouble.
00:33:56
The problem is if people say, I should be able to get this done for $20, $25 a square foot.
00:34:00
They don't account the extra 10,000 and then they're disappointed at the end or they break even or they're bringing money to the cost of payment.
00:34:06
What do you think going forward the next couple of years or at least the next year, as we're going forward here, are we going up?
00:34:15
Are we flat?
00:34:16
Are we going down?
00:34:17
What do you think?
00:34:18
Because this really affects whether or not to flip properties in my opinion.
00:34:22
My opinion, if the markets flat are going up, go bananas, raise the funds, get the contractors, do it.
00:34:29
Right?
00:34:35
It's when, like in 2022, when interest rates skyrocketed from what they were for like a decade that we saw some really big problems with the flippers.
00:34:41
I mean, a lot of flippers lost a lot of money and that happens anytime that you've got inflation, anytime that you've got interest rates that are really, you know, get, get hiked up.
00:34:51
Are you seeing any of that or you think it's going to be flat up down?
00:34:54
What do you think?
00:34:55
This is a phenomenal question I want to attack because I feel no different than when I go into a home.
00:35:01
Let me give you the chocolate covered broccoli real quick.
00:35:04
That is no one wants the broccoli.
00:35:06
They want the chocolate.
00:35:07
So we got to give them bolts, right?
00:35:08
You got to give them the chocolate of broccoli because sometimes you got to give people what they need.
00:35:11
Why is it that you're able to go into an appointment and get a contract?
00:35:15
Why is it that we're able to go into an appointment and get a contract?
00:35:17
It's because there is this confidence level.
00:35:20
People aren't looking for just the best offer.
00:35:25
And I think so many times we think, oh, we've got to be the best offer and people are going to go with you.
00:35:26
If that's all you have to offer, that's all you have to offer.
00:35:28
But there's many times we're not the highest offer and we are getting contracts because we provide the most confidence we're going to actually fulfill what we said we're going to do.
00:35:36
I think now to tie us back into your question, what's going on?
00:35:40
Is it rising?
00:35:41
Is it flat?
00:35:42
There's a new confidence.
00:35:43
This is not a right or a left conversation right now.
00:35:46
This is just going off of the feeling that I'm feeling right now and there is a higher level of confidence going on right now in the economy that makes me say it's going up.
00:35:55
Now, there's things that can change always.
00:35:58
I've always been the guy that's like, marry the home and date the rate, meaning rates always change.
00:36:03
But people that have been sitting on the sidelines right now saying, I can't buy.
00:36:07
We got 7% interest rates.
00:36:08
Now is the time for me and my mind.
00:36:10
No, you buy because if those interest rates go down, these prices actually go up.
00:36:15
And so let's buy it.
00:36:16
Why it's low and then date the rate because the rate is going to change and just refinance.
00:36:21
And now you got the home at a low price and you get to refinance at a lower interest rate come here in the future.
00:36:26
There is a confidence going on.
00:36:28
So again, not going political, but there is an absolute confidence going on in the economy right now.
00:36:34
What's going to happen over the next few years or at least this next year.
00:36:39
And I'm seeing a lot of things happening.
00:36:41
I'm seeing a lot of interested parties getting back into real estate.
00:36:45
I'm seeing a lot of cash buyers get back in the game saying, hey, it's our time to go because they know what's going to happen over these next few years.
00:36:53
I think it's going to be nothing but powerful going on.
00:36:54
Nothing but great.
00:36:57
I anticipate in the spring, beginning of the year, it's going to have it.
00:37:00
It's going to bump off and things are going to be good.
00:37:03
There's a couple of things I look at.
00:37:04
I almost go to the definitive statement of Brent.
00:37:07
I actually don't care.
00:37:08
And here's what I mean by that.
00:37:09
If I just do what I do well and I'm consistent at it, I almost don't care.
00:37:13
Because in our space, there's always people that can benefit from the services we provide.
00:37:18
I don't do this often.
00:37:19
I just happened to go on appointment this last Saturday, just just two days ago.
00:37:25
Let's go to the family.
00:37:26
I just shake out the dust.
00:37:27
I had to meet with a great family.
00:37:29
They ultimately needed a solution because they're home.
00:37:32
They just don't have the surplus that they need to get fixed up, but they're excited to make a transition.
00:37:36
Moving to another home.
00:37:37
They're coming together as a family, a mom and daughter and son.
00:37:40
They're buying another home together.
00:37:43
But their home is 40 years and a lot of work from being able to sell that thing.
00:37:50
Mold and some issues like that.
00:37:51
So anyway, if I position myself to provide meaningful value and service to families, I'm in a home like that where the market's going up or down.
00:38:00
Okay, so now how is it relevant if there's higher interest rates in marketing?
00:38:02
Well, yeah, I have to buy right.
00:38:04
I have to be conservative as to the numbers I put in the contract.
00:38:07
But at the end of the day, I can't control those things.
00:38:09
And so I almost put zero energy towards what the market's doing.
00:38:12
And I just provide meaningful value and service.
00:38:14
I go find families that can benefit from the service and providing.
00:38:17
I'm consistent with my marketing and manage my leads well.
00:38:19
And at the end of the day, I'm going to execute regardless of what the market's doing.
00:38:22
And I focus on homes.
00:38:23
Here's maybe the other rule.
00:38:25
I focus on homes that are medium price range and below.
00:38:27
And if I stick with that and I get by right and I I'm conservative with my purchase price, I'm going to be okay.
00:38:33
And I'm going to provide meaningful value service.
00:38:34
And the market's going to do what's going to do.
00:38:36
And sometimes yes, I'll cure it because the market does better than I anticipate.
00:38:40
But other times, it won't.
00:38:41
But I'm not going to lose money because I bought right and I am secure.
00:38:44
And I'm providing service and value to the families immediately.
00:38:48
I love it.
00:38:54
Guys, I am a Joe home buyer franchisee Joe home buyer has been phenomenal.
00:38:56
When did I start 2019?
00:38:58
It's been five years.
00:38:58
Do I get a five year anniversary for that?
00:39:01
I hope so.
00:39:02
What a V.
00:39:03
You are one of the first early doctors, maybe.
00:39:06
Well, first of all, I think I think brand local brand is really important.
00:39:10
And this is for anybody that, you know, once you're, once you're starting to build your business and you're bringing people onto your team.
00:39:17
Across that million dollar threshold, you cross that $750,000 threshold.
00:39:22
I think it's really important to have an asset.
00:39:25
And most people won't buy your real estate business.
00:39:28
They just won't.
00:39:29
But if you buy a franchise and there's only a certain amount of franchises that can happen in each market, that's something that over time is a real asset.
00:39:39
That's what that's what I saw going into it.
00:39:41
And also just the training.
00:39:42
I mean, I send all my acquisition managers to Utah.
00:39:46
You guys train them all.
00:39:47
We have weekly meetings with you guys.
00:39:49
You guys do phenomenal with, you know, testing out all the different marketing channels.
00:39:54
And so for anybody that's around the country that's interested in having a business in a box, but, but also having the support of real operators that are doing it.
00:40:05
And it's not this big corporate weird thing like some of these other franchises.
00:40:10
I would, I would highly suggest you look into Joe home buyer.
00:40:13
It is, it has been an unbelievable.
00:40:15
I mean, my business has absolutely.
00:40:17
I think tripled at this point as of this year since joining.
00:40:21
And so it's, it's been a huge advantage for us.
00:40:24
We all my guys wear these polos when they go out on there.
00:40:28
My, my commercials on TV that we spend.
00:40:31
Whatever 40, 50,000 dollars a month on right now.
00:40:34
And we'll continue to or all Joe home buyer.
00:40:37
And it's funny.
00:40:38
People think my name is Joe, right when they see me or whatever else out in the streets.
00:40:42
I'm recognized because of the TV commercials and they're like, Joe, it's really interesting guys.
00:40:46
And so if you, if you've ever thought about that, make sure you go, where do they go, just to Joe home buyer.
00:40:51
Come.
00:40:58
Yeah, Joe home buyer franchising.com.
00:40:58
You can also follow us on Instagram.
00:40:59
And, yeah, we'd love to.
00:41:02
Hey guys, the, the, the, the, the meetups are fantastic getting together and collaborating.
00:41:07
It's not something that, you know, listen, some of these masterminds, you spend 10, 20, 30, 50,000 dollars to be a part of.
00:41:14
This is way more value than anything like that.
00:41:17
So, um, if, if you're in a position and you're interested in buying an actual incredible brand that is really just, just growing up only five,
00:41:29
six years old and really building some momentum.
00:41:31
I highly suggest you guys looking to Joe home buyer franchise.
00:41:34
Just Google it and check that out.
00:41:36
Cody, Mark, thanks for being on here.
00:41:39
It's always an honor and thank you for those kind words.
00:41:42
That means the world that you are, your crew is a fantastic crew to work with.
00:41:47
They are the most coachable humble people, which is why they're tripling the revenue, because they, they don't just listen, they listen, they go.
00:41:55
Listen, we're going to do $2.5 million here in Phoenix, you know, we're, we're, we're pushing it hit 2.5 million hardest markets in the country in the gross income.
00:42:05
And then, you know, obviously the net is around 30, 40% there just depends on how this shakes out, but it's been fantastic.
00:42:13
And, you know, you guys, you guys put together all the systems.
00:42:18
I just picked the people and make sure that we have enough marketing going out and life's good.
00:42:23
So definitely check it out guys Joe home buyer franchising and that is it for our show.
00:42:29
We talked a lot of stuff.
00:42:30
We talked about direct mail.
00:42:32
We talked about flipping versus wholesaling.
00:42:35
If you're really interested in deep diving, what wholesaling is go to rich dad and Brent dot com rich dad and Brent dot com.
00:42:44
We have a presentation that's 45 minutes an hour.
00:42:46
And that really opened your eyes to what that means and the potential there.
00:42:49
And it's actually something the Robert Kiyosaki talks about chapter five of rich dad poor dad, which I didn't see the first 10 times I read the book, but then finally didn't change my life forever.
00:43:00
So definitely check that out at rich dad and Brent dot com.
00:43:03
And that's it guys.
00:43:04
I love you guys.
00:43:05
I want you to go out there and have conversations make offers and talk to people.
00:43:10
Till next time.
00:43:10
See you guys.
00:43:12
Thanks for listening to rich dad radio.
00:43:15
The good news and bad news about flipping real estate hosted by Brent Daniels to learn more go to rich dad dot com.
00:43:24
Don't forget to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
00:43:29
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