Ever wonder why true cross-racial friendships are so rare? Todd and Bettijo get into it with Dr. Deborah L. Plummer, breaking down the myths we tell ourselves about race, why fear keeps us divided, and how to actually build friendships that go deeper than skin.

SUMMARY

Today on DANG!, we’re getting real about what it takes to build deep, authentic relationships across racial lines. Our guest is Dr. Deborah L. Plummer—a psychologist, educator, and bestselling author who has worked with Fortune 500 companies, hospitals, schools, and faith communities, helping them build stronger diversity strategies and organizations. She also founded the master’s program in diversity management at Cleveland State and has spent decades guiding people through the complexities of race, identity, and connection.

Dr. Plummer explains how one simple question—“Why are all your friends white?”—sparked her lifelong work in diversity and inclusion, revealing just how rare cross-racial friendships are and why that matters. Todd and Bettijo share their own early run-ins with racism, showing how where you grow up can shape what you do—or don’t—understand about race. Together, they dig into the difference between personal prejudice and systemic barriers baked into our institutions. Dr. Plummer breaks down why fear fuels division, why saying “I don’t see color” doesn’t get us where we need to go, and how embracing your own racial identity actually makes cross-racial relationships stronger—not weaker.

This episode isn’t about finger-pointing; it’s about breaking down walls, moving past “us versus them,” and figuring out how we can start living as a bigger, bolder “we”—together.

HIGHLIGHTS

• Dr. Plummer shares how a friend's question about her white friends led her to research cross-racial relationships. (1:47 )
• Todd recounts a discriminatory experience when trying to buy a house in Culver City and hearing the N-word for the first time. (5:42 )
• Dr. Plummer shares her first experience being called a racial slur at Girls Scout camp. (6:55 )
• Dr. Plummer explains that fear is a major driver of mistrust and limits human potential in cross-racial interactions. (9:46 )
• The conversation delves into the concept of systemic racism. (12:20 )
• Dr. Plummer discusses how fear is the root all around. (16:01 )
• The episode explores the myth that individuals in interracial relationships might lose their identity, emphasizing the importance of racial identity development. (19:00 )
• Todd reflects on the historical significance of seeing a Black president, Barack Obama, and the impact it had on his perspective. (24:50 )
• Dr. Plummer introduces her nonprofit, "Getting to We," and its mission to transform "us and them" into "we" by fostering trust and empowering storytelling. (27:32 )
• Dr. Plummer explains how everyone goes through a “Racial Socialization Process.” (43:23 )
• ToddFlix: Chicago PD (55:55 )

LISTEN TO LEARN

• Recognize societal and systemic barriers to cross-racial friendships.
• Understand how fear affects trust and connection.
• Learn strategies for building authentic, cross-racial relationships.

Understanding the barriers to true cross-racial connection is the first step. Ready to move beyond ‘diverse’ and see what ‘we’ can be? Hit play.

Follow on Instagram:  Todd @toddbridges & Bettijo @pagingsupermom

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DANG! is produced by Loop 101 Media, Bettijo Bridges, Todd Bridges & Attalie Anne

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