American golfers who visit the UK often come back wondering the U.S. doesn’t have more private golf clubs that encourage outside play. There are a number of reasons for the differences between the UK and U.S. club “models”—some tax-related, others having to do with history and culture. Still, it is possible to create a golf club in the U.S. that combines a strong local membership with a welcoming posture toward the public. That’s exactly what a group of people in Michigan is trying to do by reinventing Dunham Hills Golf Club as Proving Ground Golf Club.

In today’s episode, Garrett sits down with the architect behind this project, Mike DeVries. Mike is a partner with the firm Clayton, DeVries & Pont and a decorated solo architect whose designs include Kingsley Club, Cape Wickham Golf Links, Greywalls at Marquette Golf Club, Diamond Springs Golf Course, The Mines Golf Golf Course, and Pilgrims Run Golf Club. Mike and Garrett discuss the story behind the Proving Ground project and the benefits of emulating the UK club model. In the back half of the episode, they dig into Mike’s approach to designing and building affordable, accessible golf courses.