What if the way your team talks is the blueprint for every product you ship? We sit down with Erica Hall—co‑founder of Mule Design and author of Just Enough Research and Conversational Design—to connect the dots between internal communication, ethical practice, and the systems that end up in people’s hands. From AI hype to accessibility debt, Erica challenges the default settings that turn “innovation” into convenience theater and shows how small, human choices reshape outcomes.

We unpack Conway’s Law and why so many “conversational” tools are really shields that prevent actual conversation. Erica explains why accessibility must be the foundation of value delivery, not an add‑on, and how multimodal design—voice, text, GUI—honors real life context switching. We talk about the political economy behind today’s platforms: funding fads, LLM bandwagons, and the quiet scaling of bias through automated decision making. Along the way, we explore the power dynamics of in‑house design teams, why external partners once provided crucial leverage, and how fear erodes the point of view needed to build responsible products.

Most importantly, we get practical. Erica shares tactics to rebuild trust at work through private, human conversations that aren’t mediated or recorded; ways to move beyond AI theater by naming goals before choosing tools; and advice for new graduates navigating a volatile market without losing themselves. If you’re wrestling with inclusion, ethics, or the pressure to “ship a chatbot,” this conversation offers clear language, real examples, and a path to designing with dignity.

Listen, share with a colleague who needs a sanity check, and leave a review so more builders can find this conversation. Subscribe for future episodes focused on ethical design, accessibility, and the real work of making technology serve people.

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