In this episode, Christian Idiodi sits down with SVPG founder Marty Cagan to discuss founder-style leadership. Building on themes from Paul Graham’s essay “Founder Mode,” Christian and Marty break down what effective product leadership looks like. Anyone can learn these skills through enough effort and care, whether they are a founder or not.

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Today’s discussion unpacks:

• Misconceptions about founder-style leadership

  
  



• Why you can’t be a good manager without being a good coach

  
  



• The line between founder-style leadership and micromanagement

  
  



• How to scale product sense

  
  



• Lessons from Apple, Google and Amazon’s leadership principles

  
  

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References:

• Amazon’s Leadership Principles: https://www.amazon.jobs/content/en/our-workplace/leadership-principles

  
  



• Apple’s Leadership Principles: https://www.apple.com/jobs/pdf/HBR_How_Apple_Is_Organized_For_Innovation-4.pdf

  
  



• Bill Campbell (Executive Coach): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Campbell_(business_executive)

  
  



• Coaching Founder Mode by Marty Cagan: https://www.svpg.com/coaching-founder-mode/

  
  



• Founder Mode by Paul Graham https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html

  
  



• Founder-Style Leadership by Marty Cagan: https://www.svpg.com/founder-style-leadership/

  
  



• Google’s Leadership Principles: https://www.geeknack.com/2020/07/31/google-leadership-principles-at-a-glance/

  
  



• Mike Fisher (CEO of MyFitnessPal): https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-fisher-3317a8/

  
  



• Pilot Teams by Chris Jones: https://www.svpg.com/pilot-teams/

  
  



• Product Sense Demystified by Marty Cagan: https://www.svpg.com/product-sense-demystified/

  
  



• Steve Jobs on Professional Managers (1985): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVKcxK_tVBM&ab_channel=ConsultingComedy

  
  



• The Coaching Mindset by Chris Jones: https://www.svpg.com/the-coaching-mindset/

  
  

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Where to find SVPG:

• SVPG’s newest book, TRANSFORMED: ⁠https://www.svpg.com/books/transformed-moving-to-the-product-operating-model/

  
  



• Other books: https://www.svpg.com/books/

  
  



• Articles: ⁠https://www.svpg.com/articles/

  
  



• Workshops: ⁠https://www.svpg.com/⁠

  
  



• Videos: ⁠https://www.svpg.com/videos/

  
  

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Where to find Christian Idiodi:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cidiodi/

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Where to find Marty Cagan:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cagan/

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Timestamps:

(00:00 ) Intro

(00:44 ) Initial reactions to "Founder Mode"

(03:46 ) "Better management" not "less management"

(06:18 ) Historical examples of founder-style leadership

(10:22 ) Founder-style leadership in startups

(14:44 ) Scaling product sense

(23:46 ) Europe's "People-Only Manager" trend

(26:34 ) The line between founder-style leadership and micromanagement

(33:00 ) Shifting a culture toward founder-style leadership

(37:06 ) Success stories: Apple and Amazon

(40:13 ) Closing thoughts

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Disclaimer:

While this podcast is named “Product Therapy”, it is not hosted by licensed therapists or mental health professionals, and it is in no way a substitute for professional mental health services. We recognize the importance of mental well-being and encourage anyone facing personal difficulties to seek support from qualified professionals. See https://findahelpline.com/

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Production:

Production by supermix.io