DiscoverThe Andrew Klavan ShowCorporations Are GAMING You with Gurwinder Bhogal
Corporations Are GAMING You with Gurwinder Bhogal

Corporations Are GAMING You with Gurwinder Bhogal

Update: 2024-07-10
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This podcast episode delves into the concept of gamification, exploring its origins, its widespread adoption, and its potential downsides. The host, Andrew Clayman, interviews Garwinder Bogal, a writer who has been exploring the gamification of everyday life. Bogal explains that gamification, the application of game elements like points, leaderboards, and badges to non-game activities, has its roots in the work of behaviorist psychologist B.F. Skinner, who experimented with controlling animal behavior through rewards. The episode discusses how gamification has become increasingly prevalent in the digital age, with social media platforms like Facebook pioneering the use of likes and shares as a form of gamification. The episode also explores the potential downsides of gamification, including its ability to create a false sense of accomplishment and its potential for manipulation by corporations and governments. Bogal argues that gamification can be used to control people for the benefit of the gamifiers, often at the expense of the gamified. The episode concludes with a discussion of the need for individuals to be aware of the potential pitfalls of gamification and to develop strategies for resisting its manipulative aspects.

Outlines

00:00:00
Introduction and Gamification Explained

This Chapter introduces the topic of gamification and introduces Garwinder Bogal, a writer who has been exploring the gamification of everyday life. Bogal explains that gamification is the application of game elements like points, leaderboards, and badges to non-game activities, and that it has its roots in the work of behaviorist psychologist B.F. Skinner, who experimented with controlling animal behavior through rewards.

00:02:31
The Rise of Gamification in the Digital Age

This Chapter explores the rise of gamification in the digital age, with social media platforms like Facebook pioneering the use of likes and shares as a form of gamification. The episode discusses how gamification has become increasingly prevalent in various aspects of life, including dating apps, banking apps, and even audiobooks.

00:10:43
The Promise and Perils of Gamification

This Chapter delves into the potential downsides of gamification, including its ability to create a false sense of accomplishment and its potential for manipulation by corporations and governments. Bogal argues that gamification can be used to control people for the benefit of the gamifiers, often at the expense of the gamified.

00:24:08
Resisting Gamification and Finding True Fulfillment

This Chapter discusses strategies for resisting the manipulative aspects of gamification and finding true fulfillment in life. Bogal emphasizes the importance of playing long-term games over short-term games and of focusing on activities that align with one's own values and goals.

00:26:15
The Struggle for Freedom in a Gamified World

This Chapter explores the broader implications of gamification for society and the need for individuals to be aware of its potential pitfalls. Bogal argues that the real struggle is not between left and right, but between those who want to control us and those who want to be free.

Keywords

Gamification


The application of game elements, such as points, leaderboards, and badges, to non-game activities in order to make them more engaging and motivating. It is often used to encourage desired behaviors or to increase user engagement.

B.F. Skinner


An American psychologist who is considered one of the most influential figures in behaviorism. He is known for his experiments on operant conditioning, which demonstrated how behavior can be shaped through reinforcement and punishment. His work has had a significant impact on the understanding of learning and behavior, and his ideas have been applied to various fields, including education, therapy, and marketing.

Behavioral Economics


A field of economics that studies how psychological factors influence economic decision-making. It combines insights from psychology, economics, and other disciplines to understand how people make choices in real-world situations. Behavioral economics has led to the development of new theories and models that challenge traditional economic assumptions.

Nudging


A technique used in behavioral economics to influence people's choices in a subtle and non-coercive way. It involves designing environments or presenting information in a way that makes it easier for people to make choices that are beneficial to themselves or to society. Nudging is often used in public policy to promote healthy behaviors, such as saving for retirement or reducing energy consumption.

Social Credit System


A system used by the Chinese government to track and evaluate the behavior of its citizens. It assigns a score to each individual based on their actions, such as paying bills on time, obeying traffic laws, and engaging in socially responsible behavior. The score can affect access to services, such as loans, travel, and employment. The system has been criticized for its potential to erode privacy and to create a system of social control.

Counterfeit Fitness


A term coined by evolutionary psychologist Diana Fleishman to describe the phenomenon of people feeling a sense of accomplishment and self-worth from activities that do not actually contribute to their real-world success or well-being. This can occur in situations where people are rewarded for behaviors that are not aligned with their true goals or values.

Ted Kaczynski


An American mathematician and social critic who is known as the Unabomber. He was convicted of carrying out a series of bombings in the 1970s and 1980s, targeting academics and technology professionals. He wrote a manifesto, "Industrial Society and Its Future," which criticized the negative impacts of technology on society. His ideas have been influential in some circles, but his methods have been widely condemned.

Émile Durkheim


A French sociologist who is considered one of the founders of modern sociology. He is known for his work on social solidarity, anomie, and suicide. His theories have had a significant impact on the understanding of social structures, social change, and the role of social forces in shaping individual behavior.

Q&A

  • What is gamification and how does it work?

    Gamification is the application of game elements, such as points, leaderboards, and badges, to non-game activities. It aims to make these activities more engaging and motivating by tapping into our natural desire for competition, rewards, and achievement.

  • What are some examples of gamification in everyday life?

    Gamification is prevalent in many aspects of our lives, including social media (likes, shares, followers), dating apps (swiping, matching), banking apps (points, rewards), and even audiobooks (leaderboards, badges).

  • What are the potential downsides of gamification?

    Gamification can create a false sense of accomplishment, leading people to feel satisfied with achievements that don't translate to real-world success. It can also be used by corporations and governments to manipulate behavior and control people for their own benefit.

  • How can we resist the manipulative aspects of gamification?

    We can resist gamification by focusing on long-term goals and activities that align with our values. We should also be critical of systems that reward us for behaviors that don't contribute to our true well-being.

  • What is the real struggle in the modern world, according to Garwinder Bogal?

    Bogal argues that the real struggle is not between left and right, but between those who want to control us and those who want to be free. He sees technology as a tool that can be used to both liberate and control us.

  • What is the significance of Ted Kaczynski's ideas in the context of gamification?

    Kaczynski's manifesto, while controversial, raises important questions about the impact of technology on our lives and our sense of purpose. He argued that modern society is alien to our natural instincts and that we are being manipulated by those in power.

  • How does Émile Durkheim's work relate to the discussion of gamification?

    Durkheim's analysis of suicide rates during the Industrial Revolution highlighted the loss of purpose and meaning that can occur with rapid social change. This resonates with Kaczynski's argument that modern society is creating a void that is being filled by manipulative forces.

  • What is the takeaway message of this podcast episode?

    The episode encourages listeners to be aware of the potential pitfalls of gamification and to develop strategies for resisting its manipulative aspects. It emphasizes the importance of finding true fulfillment in life by pursuing long-term goals and activities that align with our values.

Show Notes

Gurwinder Bhogal, writer of "The Prism" Substack, joins us to discuss how gamification is being used by corporations and big government to control society.

 

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Corporations Are GAMING You with Gurwinder Bhogal

Corporations Are GAMING You with Gurwinder Bhogal

The Andrew Klavan Show