In this episode, our contributors reflect on laws and regulations for holding brands and retailers accountable for violations of worker rights in the factories that supply them, including:

• Nayla Ajaltouni from Collectif Ethique sur L'Etiquette in France tells how campaigners succeeded in getting the first law protecting human rights in supply chains passed in France – and how this law might set a European precedent for stronger worker rights protection. 
• Nasir Mansoor from NTUF in Pakistan reflects on the experience of using legal mechanisms to hold KiK accountable for the Ali Enterprises fire. 
• Muriel Treibich from the CCC International Office introduces human rights due diligence and presents opportunities including the European Supply Chain.
• Scott Nova from WRC in the USA highlights the closing of a loophole means the section of the US Tariff Act that prohibits companies importing goods made with forced labour could be enforced. 

Please tell us what inspired you about this show, and share your feedback, comments and questions, by emailing: podcast@cleanclothes.org 

Speakers:

Nayla Ajaltouni, Coordinator, Collectif Ethique sur L’Etiquette, France

Nasir Mansoor, General Secretary, NTUF (National Trade Union Federation), Pakistan

Muriel Treibich, Lobby and Advocacy Coordinator, Clean Clothes Campaign International Office, Netherlands

Scott Nova, Executive Director, Worker Rights Consortium, USA

• Host: Febriana Firdaus (febrianafirdaus.com)
• Sound Engineering Support: Steve Adam (www.spectrosonics.com.au) 
• Court of the Future performers: Free Theatre (www.freetheatre.com.au)
• Production: Matthew Abud with support from Anne Dekker
• Podcast Team: Johnson Ching-Yin Yeung, Liz Parker, Tanne de Goei

Full Transcript

JUDGE:

Order! Order! I mean it – I will have order in this court! 

Now then. To the defendant.  Mr. Ralph Hermes Vuitton 

You may deliver your statement. 

RHV: 

Thank you, Your Honour. May I say with great humility, I’m humbled by the privilege to address this court. Very humbled. Humblingly so. 

Because as everyone knows, we at Ralph Vuitton are a humble, ethical, caring, socially responsible, innovative brand ...and we pay record dividends! 

The simple fact is – we didn’t know! And our promise is – we will do better! 

We can’t know everything our suppliers do. It’s unrealistic. 

We have thousands of them! We change them all the time! Some employees even work from home. Are we supposed to visit them too? 

I mean, what would happen to my exclusive trench coat in those neighbourhoods? It would be ruined. 

JUDGE: 

Order! Come on now, let’s have a little order here.

Right. Now Mr. Vuitton. Please keep to the point. 

RHV:

Yes your Honour. To put it simply.

Did we make the building a fire trap with no escape? No, we didn’t. 

Did we ban the workers from organising together or cut their pay? No, it wasn’t us. 

Can you blame me that women are constantly harassed in the workplace? That’s outrageous! 

Let me finish with this point. Your Honour, could I say how stylish you would look in a bold red Faux Leather Coat. For you, it would be an affordable 175 Euros. 

But if we had to pay for all the things they propose? Why, it could go up to 176! We’d be bankrupt! 

Thank you, Your Honour. 

JUDGE:

And why are you giving me your business card, Mr Vuitton? 

RHV: 

Just if you are interested in that Faux Leather Coat. 

JUDGE: 

This is not a sales pitch, Mr. Ralph Hermes Vuitton. We’re in a court of law. Do you understand? 

HOST:

Could that be the court-room of the future? 

Where brands must prove that they take care of human rights, through their whole supply chain?

I’m Febriana Firdaus.

Welcome to episode three of the Clean Clothes Podcast. 

Today we talk human rights due diligence, and making laws to keep brands honest.

Human rights abuse includes stolen wages, sexual harassment, and union busting. 

It has also cost many workers their lives. 

This is Nasir Mansoor, General Secretary of the National Trade Union Federation or NTUF in Pakistan.

NASIR:

There was a tragedy in September 2012, where in a factory there was a fire and 260 workers died in that factory. And that factory was producing merchandise for a German brand, its name was KIK. So when we look into the law, even Pakistani law, European law, German law, we didn’t get any space for the workers to go for filing of a case and make them accountable for it. 

So in that context we get to know that we should have, not only in Pakistan but also in European Union there would be some kind of a law or some kind of a mechanism to make them account for. Unfortunately after filing a case in Dortmund against KIK in German court, after three years of hearings, the court verdict that on technically on Pakistani laws it was a time bar issue. 

HOST: 

The push for human rights supply chain laws, has a long history.

Trade Unions and NGOs campaigned on it for decades.

This is Muriel Treibich, Lobby and Advocacy Coordinator for Clean Clothes Campaign

MURIEL:

Of course a lot of the initial efforts were pushed by NGOs and trade unions that highlighted really important cases and important situations where that would happen. And so for years they brought information, reports, they communicated, they campaigned about those issues. And progressively that led also to the international recognition that that was an issue, and that was something that international institutions, governments, the United Nations, had to look at. 

In 2011 when you had the United Nations that published their first Guiding Principles on business and human rights. And what it says, is that first states have an obligation to ensure the respect of human rights, but that also companies have a responsibility to protect human rights. And that was let’s say one of the first recognitions, and one of the biggest recognition that yes, international companies have a responsibility to protect human rights across their supply chain and not only in the companies and in the operations they fully own and they fully control. 

The human rights due d...