Shadiin and Delma open this week's episode with warmth, love, and light. Or...not.

They move into a conversation about the ways their own inside jokes have potentially caused harm to some of our listeners-which leads to a broader analysis of how we might come to conclusions about what's acceptable and what's not-and to what extent we're even equipped to have those conversations with one another. We discuss the isolation and shaming that can come from our triggers running encountering our inability to skillfully hold these conversations.

DIJ welcomes Scott Nine-Assistant Superintendent for the Oregon Department of Education’s Office of Education Innovation and Improvement. Scott discusses his journey through his childhood in a faith community, grappling with the politics of whiteness within his own family, and wrestling with working to constantly expand his world view.

Scott draws on these narratives as he moves into his current role and his vulnerability when working on justice issues as a white, cisgender male, and how his commitment to equity rests in a willingness to keep doing "the work" even as you know you're going to get things wrong along the way.

After confessing profound pettiness, Scott joins Shadiin and Delma in analyzing the role of ism's articulated by celebrities and how our feelings about their words inform us.