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Do Chelsea really need more signings?
Update: 2025-01-21
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Last night, Chelsea ended their winless run with a comfortable 3-1 victory over Wolves.
But despite spending more than a billion pounds assembling their squad - are Chelsea still light in certain areas?
And are we to expect a flurry of transfer activity at Stamford Bridge this month?
Host: Ayo Akinwolere
With: Liam Twomey, Phil Hay & David Ornstein
Executive Producer: Adey Moorhead
Producer: Mike Stavrou and Nick Thomson
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00:02:08
The Athletic FC Podcast Network Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me,
00:02:21
Ayo Akim Valere.
00:02:22
Last night, Chelsea ended their winless run with a comfortable victory over wolves.
00:02:27
But despite spending more than a billion pounds assembling their squad,
00:02:38
our Chelsea's still light in certain areas.
00:02:40
And are we to expect a flurry of transfer activity at Stanford Bridge this month?
00:02:45
With us today, we have one of our Chelsea writers, Liam Toomey, plus lead writer for the Athletic FC Newsletter, Phil Hay as well.
00:02:56
Liam, important, important win for Chelsea against wolves at Stanford Bridge last night, but also Trevor Chalaba caught my eye.
00:03:04
I mean, coming back to Chelsea, off loan from Crystal Palace and considering the defensive woes Chelsea have right now, it was also a very timely performance as well, don't you think?
00:03:13
It was like you'd never been away.
00:03:16
Took no time to settle back in, playing in a slightly less familiar position as the left-sided centre-back alongside Toomey.
00:03:24
He set the tone.
00:03:26
I thought in the first couple of minutes with a real crunching, but perfectly time-sliding challenge.
00:03:32
And he defended with real aggression, authority.
00:03:37
And as Noni Madueke cited in his post-match interview with Sky Sports, he brought leadership as well, which is something that Chelsea haven't always had on the pitch.
00:03:47
So yeah, I think Chelsea would say he validated the reasons why they recalled him.
00:03:54
There are obviously fans who would question why he was sent out on loans Crystal Palace in the first place, but he's clearly a quality Premier League centre-back.
00:04:01
He was in good form at Solhurst Park and he's brought that form back to Chelsea where I think once again for what the fifth or sixth time in his Chelsea career, he feels like he's got a point to prove.
00:04:12
Yeah, I'm just looking at Chelsea's results of late Phil.
00:04:16
I mean, they're very picked up what, six points from their last six Premier League games.
00:04:21
And it looked like things were sort of starting to unravel.
00:04:24
I'm just thinking about the importance of this result to get back into that top four.
00:04:29
Yeah, I think probably more important to launch the boil if I can say that without over exaggerating the situation they were in, as opposed to being in fourth place specifically.
00:04:39
When any time we spoke about Chelsea this season, we've referenced the fact that fourth or above is what they want.
00:04:45
I know there was that little flutter where the form was so good that it provoked a little bit of title talk.
00:04:52
That's kind of faded away and not necessarily a bad thing for Chelsea, I don't think.
00:04:56
I don't mean in the sense they wouldn't want to win the title, but I think it was beyond them this season, whereas fourth place definitely isn't.
00:05:04
I did have a look back through the results because I think they've been good this season as a whole and this is the first real kind of slump that they've had.
00:05:12
And in terms of the table as well, the pressure's coming on a little bit because of the fact that, you know, nottingham forest of shaking things up in a big way in the top four.
00:05:24
And whereas I think if you had Liverpool and Arsenal going at it for the title and Newcastle Chelsea and City in behind, I think Chelsea would feel pretty quietly confident at the moment that they could make a top four finish theirs.
00:05:35
As it is at the moment, it might be that fourth is all they have to go at.
00:05:39
So they need to stay in the mix.
00:05:42
But it was an important result.
00:05:44
I do kind of feel like they were in a position to beat Crystal Palace.
00:05:47
They were in a position to beat Fulham and I totally understand that they didn't and they go down as poor results.
00:05:52
But I feel like Ipswich away was the only real shocker in there.
00:05:56
Wolves are so poor that that had they lost last night or dropped points last night that we'd have fallen into much the same category.
00:06:03
But it was a good win for them and a steady win.
00:06:05
Yeah, just a quick one, Liam.
00:06:07
It's still, you know, let's still remember regardless of how Chelsea have started this season.
00:06:12
This team is still trying to find ways to click together.
00:06:15
It's still a learning process and I did watch the match yesterday.
00:06:18
There's still a moment.
00:06:19
I can't remember who it was.
00:06:21
It was a netto and Kokorea.
00:06:22
Kokorea played like a blind pass and netto just did read it.
00:06:25
They're still trying to find what that rhythm looks like.
00:06:27
Yeah.
00:06:28
And especially when the combinations change a little bit from from game to game.
00:06:34
Mariska has done that often to Chelsea's benefit this season.
00:06:38
He's been criticized by some supporters for not tweaking in game and not reacting to what opponents are doing.
00:06:45
But he has often changed things from match to match, both in terms of the way Chelsea line up and in terms of the person now and against walls.
00:06:55
We saw it again with netto lining up on the left, which set up a different type of connection with Mark Kokorea who was inverting into midfield.
00:07:04
And as you say, I, that wasn't flawless.
00:07:07
It isn't always flawless.
00:07:08
And not everything Mariska is doing is working.
00:07:12
I don't think Chelsea were entirely convincing against wolves.
00:07:16
They had a big wobble to towards the end of the first half punctuated by that absolute gift of a goal from from a corner that Robert Sanchez will certainly not want to look back on.
00:07:28
But unlike recent weeks, they found a way to rest the momentum back towards them.
00:07:36
And they scored at key times in the second half to really take the jeopardy out of the game.
00:07:40
And that's something they haven't been doing in recent weeks.
00:07:43
And I think that's been the most alarming thing for a lot of supporters.
00:07:47
Is that a lot of these games were following a pattern where Chelsea was starting well.
00:07:51
Mariska's plan A from the first minute was working.
00:07:56
But then as the circumstances of the game changed, sometimes as opponents changed their approach, Chelsea didn't react well enough.
00:08:05
There were signs maybe that fatigue was, was becoming an issue.
00:08:09
And because Mariska is relying on a pretty small core of players and other teams were finishing stronger and getting the goals to reflect that.
00:08:19
So this was a really, really important win.
00:08:23
Newcastle are coming for them, Manchester City have woken up and Bournemouth are apparently coming for everyone.
00:08:29
So it really is an increasingly heated top for race.
00:08:33
And it's fun to watch, but I think it's a bit more stressful for Chelsea to be a part of now than it was a month ago when people were talking about them on the fringes of the title race.
00:08:45
I find it quite ironic that Liam talks about Mariska operating with a relatively small squad when we know that the breadth of players they've got fell in general.
00:08:55
And this brings me to my next point really, you know, Chelsea do have injuries, especially in defence as well.
00:09:01
Wesley for final, naturally, we've spoken about before and quite widely documented that he's injured, but also, you know, it's a position they're quite light on.
00:09:10
Do you think Chelsea with all their riches of players are still quite top-heavy when it comes to personnel?
00:09:15
I would say that they are.
00:09:16
An awful lot of money has gone on attacking players and I do feel like it's that end of the field that has really driven them this season to a large extent anyway.
00:09:26
That's not to say though that some of those investments haven't been particularly good.
00:09:30
I mean, every time I watch Cole Palmer, he looks like if anybody is going to run the show for Chelsea, it will be him.
00:09:37
And he settled into this 10 role that Mariska has given him in a really impressive way this season.
00:09:43
It just looks like the tailor-made role for him.
00:09:47
And I think he'll stick there for a long time.
00:09:50
Now, even players like Nicholas Jackson, he kind of has the capacity to be excellent and terrible in the same 90 minutes.
00:09:57
But when he plays well, he looks like a really good, dangerous forward.
00:10:01
So, yes, they probably have left themselves a bit undercooked at the back.
00:10:05
I guess what you would say is that you can't recruit, you can't recruit everywhere necessarily to the exact depth that you want to, but I think given how much transfer business has gone on at Chelsea and how much recruitment that has been,
00:10:18
that's the one area where more could be done and one area where they definitely need a little bit more depth.
00:10:24
I think it's hard to get away from the fact that Robert Sanchez and Cole feels more and more like a bone of contention, lean reference to the era last night.
00:10:32
There have been mistakes from him.
00:10:34
And Mariska seems to be in this position that managers head coach is quite often getting to where they're back in a keeper that people around them seem to be losing faith in or certainly the crowd seem to be losing faith with.
00:10:45
And every time I hear Mariska speak about Sanchez, he sounds like he's going to back him to the hill, but you do feel like that is going to become an issue that's going to have to be addressed somewhere down the line.
00:10:56
It's got to the point, I think we're past the point, Phil, of Stanford Bridge losing trust in Robert Sanchez.
00:11:04
I think they lost trust quite a while ago in him as a viable number one goalkeeper at Chelsea to the point where against wall.
00:11:11
Do you think that's fear?
00:11:13
Liam, do you think it's fear that they have?
00:11:15
I don't know if it's ever fair the kind of stuff that footballers are subjected to in the heat of competition sometimes.
00:11:25
I mean, there was a point early in the second half against walls where Reese James headed the ball back to Sanchez and there were ironic cheers from the Chelsea fans that he caught the backheader.
00:11:38
So that's where we are.
00:11:40
There is no trust in the stadium for him.
00:11:42
And I think it is a bit harsh.
00:11:45
These things are always a bit harsh, but Sanchez also hasn't helped himself.
00:11:51
And when I say that, I'm not talking about necessarily the error that he made for the wall's goal because he occasionally lets in goals that he shouldn't.
00:12:01
And I think a lot of Premier League goalkeepers do that.
00:12:05
That was something when unusual error for him because he's basically under instruction to punch the ball clear as a lot of goalkeepers are with these in swinging corners that are now all the rage in the Premier League.
00:12:16
And that was a rare occasion when he tried to catch with disastrous consequences.
00:12:20
But where he hasn't helped himself and there were there were examples of this in the walls game.
00:12:26
And there have been examples of this in pretty much every game this season that Sanchez has played.
00:12:31
So with the ball at his feet, yes, he's under instruction from Morescar to be to be bold to be brave to be progressive with his with his passing to get Chelsea on the front foot to play through and around pressure when necessary to turn defense into attack.
00:12:46
But his decision-making of what passes to play and when in the game to attempt them has been highly erratic.
00:12:56
And there was a moment in that in that walls game that stuck with me which won't make any highlight packages because it didn't come to anything.
00:13:05
But it very nearly did where in the last few minutes of the game, it's 3-1 to Chelsea, both teams have made a raft of substitutions.
00:13:12
There is no life in the game really unless something happens to give it life.
00:13:18
And the ball comes back to Sanchez and rather than kick it long, which I know Morescar doesn't want him to do or find a safer short pass to one of the flanks.
00:13:28
He basically passes the ball low through the middle of the pitch and it goes through Larsen's legs just.
00:13:35
And if it hadn't have escaped Larsen, Wolfstrike has basically in on goal and it's a chance for 3-2 out of nothing,
00:13:46
a completely self-inflicted wound.
00:13:49
And there have been lots of moments like that with Sanchez.
00:13:51
And that is really where the lack of trust at Stanford Bridge comes in.
00:13:55
I think more than anything else, they don't trust him with the ball at his feet to make good decisions.
00:14:00
It's less about his technique because he's shown the capacity to make incredible passes.
00:14:05
This is our remember one against Wolves at Mollenew, where he in the lead up to Cole Palmer's brilliant lob in that game, he plays this incredible pass right into the left channel,
00:14:17
60 yards, right onto the boot of Nicholas Jackson to set up that parma goal.
00:14:22
And so he's clearly technically very adept, but it's more about the decision-making, Chelsea fans just don't trust.
00:14:30
And when you don't have that or when you've lost it, I don't remember many examples of players, particularly goalkeepers getting it back.
00:14:39
Well, I mean, on that note, I mean, the odd thing about Sanchez is that this is deja vu after Brighton, isn't it?
00:14:45
I mean, he was the goalkeeper at Brighton, but Roberto Deserbie came in and had the most pronounced passing style that I think any of us have seen for years in the Premier League and decided,
00:14:57
you know, kind of point blank that Sanchez wasn't up to it and wasn't going to be his keeper and Julie replaced him.
00:15:02
And it seems odd that he's now finding himself in virtually exactly the same situation at Chelsea.
00:15:08
Yeah, it is strange.
00:15:09
And he was recruited at Chelsea by Ben Roberts, global head of goalkeeping, who was basically the man who discovered him and helped make him what he was at Brighton before going to Chelsea.
00:15:24
So he has a big advocate at Cobham, and I think that's been a key reason why Chelsea have persisted with him as long as they have.
00:15:32
Although, of course, they've signed other goalkeepers in that time.
00:15:34
I mean, Julia Petrovich took his spot last season.
00:15:37
Philip Jorgensen was signed last summer and has had kind of mixed performances, I would say some good, some not so impressive in his opportunities this year.
00:15:47
They've signed Mike Penders, the giant Belgian teenager from Genk who won't arrive until next summer and probably is a longer-term development project, but one that they've got really high hopes for.
00:15:58
So they don't have all their eggs in the Sanchez basket, but when you're talking about the starting goalkeeper right now, Mareska has been absolutely steadfast in everything he said publicly,
00:16:10
I think very mindful of the fact that he feels he has to back his goalkeeper.
00:16:15
It is such a confidence position that he's not going to change for the games that matter Sanchez is going to play and as long as he does, I think there's going to be this sense of unease among Chelsea supporters that something is going to go wrong.
00:16:27
From a personal stance and I know we've been talking about Sanchez for a while, but I'm just thinking in terms of where Chelsea are trying to get to and if top four is that realistic outcome Liam,
00:16:39
can someone like Sanchez prevent that from actually happening because those mistakes, cost points, and you need full concentration at all points in the Premier League,
00:16:50
to be able to gather any sort of momentum.
00:16:52
There's nothing wrong with Chelsea brim brilliant attacking, but then if when it comes to it defensively, they're lacking something.
00:17:00
That top four surely is in jeopardy.
00:17:02
Well, it is hard to quantify the kind of plus-minus of this, and this is something Mareska raised in his interview after the game.
00:17:09
He was asked by in his guy's sports interview, you know, that's four errors that Sanchez has made leading to a goal, any muricious has made more this season among Premier League goalkeepers and he said,
00:17:22
yeah, but how many times has he saved us with the way that he plays?
00:17:25
And so I think the mistakes, obviously, stick in the mind, there have been times where Sanchez has played good passes that have worked for Chelsea and you'd really have to go through it and way up what he's giving versus what he's taking away,
00:17:40
but what is clear when you look at the Premier League table is that Chelsea's Margin for error in the top four races gone.
00:17:46
They had a pretty healthy one a month ago when they were in second and I did right at the time, are they a full second?
00:17:54
You know, are they just kind of the best of a kind of meh chasing pack behind Liverpool?
00:18:00
And that's probably proven to be the case, but their form has dropped off.
00:18:05
Newcastle have just been winning every week until their stumble against Bournemouth and Manchester City have kind of remembered that they probably should be winning every week or close to every week,
00:18:16
given the talent that they have.
00:18:18
So it is looking much more formidable now and every mistake, whether it's the goalkeeper or something that happens higher up the pitch, could cost Chelsea in a way that it didn't initially feel like it might do in terms of their Champions League qualification hopes.
00:18:36
Okay.
00:18:37
I'm just thinking about the injuries they've got, Phil, especially at centre back for Farner, Badi Ashili, Levi Cole will obviously Chalibas come back to sort of plug in that gap,
00:18:48
but you know, something a lot of people would say is that Chelsea have also let a lot of really good academy players leave the club.
00:18:54
Tim Aure, Gwy, who's now at Crystal Palace, who maybe might come about who knows, but you know, in hindsight, yeah, you can go, maybe we let them go, but based on circumstances,
00:19:05
based on manager, based on coaches or based on club ethos, players do come and go, but you do think actually that they've always had a fair bit of riches when it comes to academy players coming through and perhaps they could be plugging in that gap from them right now.
00:19:18
They could, although you're right, Taming and circumstances is always important with this.
00:19:23
So I don't doubt that when they're down on numbers, Gigi, even when they're not down on numbers, Gigi would help significantly.
00:19:29
Tim Aure potentially too, but I mean, when I think back to Tim Aure going to Milan and Liam will correct me here if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure they had Rudiger, they had Tiago Silva,
00:19:40
they had Zuma on the books as well, I think, and it wasn't as if Tim Aure was 17, 18, 19, you know, he was in his 20s, he was in the position where he was going to start losing years of his career,
00:19:53
important years of his career, if Chelsea weren't going to play him.
00:19:56
So I understand why that happened, and it's probably not one of those deals where you can look three or four years on and say, oh, if only he was still here now, you know, he's had a very,
00:20:06
very good stint at Milan and it's spot out for him.
00:20:10
So yes, I mean, a slew of defensive players from the academy would definitely help, but like we say, it's known as if Chelsea haven't spent money, it's not as if they haven't been active in the transfer market,
00:20:22
it's known as if they haven't looked to work on the squad that way, so there are players out there that they could pay for and they could say, and I think to be fair to the academy, it does yield the odd player and it does earn Chelsea money,
00:20:34
it's probably one of the more productive around it at that level, but there's no denying that they are short in that position, and you would think, particularly when it comes round to the summer, there'll be a fair amount of focus on it.
00:20:46
Well, in Tim Aure's case, he left on loan to Milan with an option to buy, I think, three days before Thomas Tookult took over as Chelsea head coach,
00:20:56
and within six months Chelsea had won the Champions League with the best defensive record in Europe over that span.
00:21:03
So it was clear the talent that was in front of him.
00:21:07
I think that was very much a case of circumstances, and within 18 months, Tim Aure was also a Serie A champion, so I think no one can really say that didn't work out for them in the short to medium term,
00:21:20
but this is a longer term institutional problem at Chelsea, and not just with defenders about academy players not getting chances.
00:21:31
It stretches back to the Abramovich era, but if you look at their current defensive options, I mean, Cole will have started every Premier League game until Wolves.
00:21:41
Reese James, the only reason he hasn't been playing is because he hasn't been fit.
00:21:46
He'd be one of the first names on the team sheet if he was physically reliable.
00:21:50
Trevor Chalabas back.
00:21:52
They've got Joshua Champpong now under a long-term contract, and they have really high hopes for him.
00:21:58
So I think that's a pretty good first team return for any elite academy.
00:22:03
There are always going to be sales and players that aren't willing to wait, or players who just don't have the right opportunities at the right moment, but in terms of players actually breaking through,
00:22:15
they've done pretty well in terms of the ones that we see.
00:22:19
Very quickly, you mentioned Chalabas.
00:22:22
I mean, how do you think that situation has been handled?
00:22:24
There was a time where he was in different training with the Chelsea squad to a certain degree, and went out alone.
00:22:30
Now he's back to filling a gap.
00:22:32
I commend any player and their mental health and respectively how they deal with these kind of situations, but I mean, Chelsea could have been a bit more definite with what his progress looked like,
00:22:42
surely.
00:22:43
Well, the first thing to say is this was definitely not the plan, was it?
00:22:47
Chelsea did everything they could, really, to get Trevor Chalabas out permanently last summer, and it wasn't the first time that they'd been motivated to sell him.
00:23:00
I think they've been pretty much motivated to sell him ever since they gave him that new long-term contract in November 2022.
00:23:10
He's still under contract until 2028, and so there's been this dance of, is there a club out there that Chalabas would consider joining?
00:23:20
Because he's had offers.
00:23:22
He's had offers from Notion Forest and from other clubs, but he sees himself as a top centre-back.
00:23:27
Whether you agree or not, he sees himself as a top centre-back.
00:23:31
If he's going to leave Chelsea, which is a club that he's got a boy who connection to, he wants to play for a top club, because that's the level he sees himself performing at,
00:23:43
and those stars haven't aligned on a move, and that's why we've seen the kind of messiness.
00:23:51
I think where you can question Chelsea last summer is the optics of what they did, taking the squad number off him, putting him in the bomb squad,
00:24:02
so to speak, away from the first team building, with other players who clearly weren't in the plans.
00:24:09
Chalabas was kind of a unique situation even among those players, because he had performed well for Chelsea.
00:24:16
He was on a long-term contract.
00:24:18
There wasn't a conogaliga situation where it was like sell or sell renewal, losing for nothing.
00:24:23
So it's always been a bit of an odd one, and he's gone away and performed really, really well for Crystal Palace,
00:24:33
and then come back and acted like he was never away.
00:24:37
I think the one thing in all this, as he say, you have to commend Chalabas' professionalism.
00:24:45
He's clearly a top-top professional.
00:24:47
He's kept his council throughout all of this.
00:24:50
There's been no briefing from dissatisfaction from his side.
00:24:55
He's clearly not been happy with the situation, but he's got on with it.
00:25:00
He's focused on his football, and he's put himself in a situation where Chelsea felt they needed him back, and from Chelsea's perspective they feel that the letting him go on loan to Palace last summer was the right football decision then,
00:25:14
and bringing him back as the right football decision now, because while their evaluation of Chalabas as a player hasn't changed, they still don't see him as a starter when they're at their strongest.
00:25:25
The circumstances have changed, with Wesley Fafarner out, Benoit Badiasheel out.
00:25:30
It's clear in Zemar Eska doesn't have a, well, he doesn't see Axel Desassi as a fit in his system at all.
00:25:37
The level of trust in Tosin, despite scoring its wolves, it's kind of questionable given that Joshua Champong was starting over him by the end.
00:25:47
So they needed something else.
00:25:49
They felt that Chalabas would be able to come in,
00:26:07
not need the time to acclimatise that a new signing would, and I think that was born out against Wolves.
00:25:57
He made an instant impact, and he should continue to do so between now and May.
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00:28:17
So on the pitch for sure, I would like to win more games, but I'm okay.
00:28:26
Of the pitch, it's a disaster because so many noises that I don't think help us, but I don't think they help any any club.
00:28:33
In this moment, when there is any noise about some player, it's not easy because even if you think that the player can be focused on us, but at the end is a human being.
00:28:44
So if there is any noise about some different club, probably it's not focused 100%.
00:28:49
So it's not help in this moment, this kind of situation, but we need to adapt because it's like this.
00:28:54
Yeah, that was ends of a risk of describing being in charge of Chelsea during the January transfer window as a disaster.
00:29:01
No, I mean, that sounds quite intense, but you've covered Chelsea for a fair bit of time now.
00:29:06
Have you ever heard of manager describe the windows at joy?
00:29:09
He's not the first coach that I've heard expressed disdain for the transfer market.
00:29:14
I mean, I did cover Maurizio Sarri, who was very, very open in his complete contempt for transfers and the whole buzz around it.
00:29:26
I think he called it the refuge of the week.
00:29:28
And that was before he got to Chelsea.
00:29:30
That was one of the infamous quotes that accompanied his arrival.
00:29:35
It is quite stark to him.
00:29:37
Areska be so candid about it.
00:29:40
And I think it's a reflection of the real frustration he's feeling.
00:29:44
Every coach has to deal with this to a degree.
00:29:47
And the January window is innately more disruptive than the summer window because the summer window, you've, and it's bad enough, you've got a couple of weeks where you're trying to start the season and players can still move.
00:30:00
But January, you're in the midst of it, you know, fixtures are thickened fast.
00:30:06
Chelsea are trying to regain some momentum.
00:30:09
And yet you have this noise.
00:30:11
And with Chelsea in particular, because they're so active, because their modern history, if you like, is so tied up in transfer activity,
00:30:22
both in and out.
00:30:23
There's more noise around Chelsea than almost any other club in the market.
00:30:29
And to me, when I, when I hear those quotes, this is just my feel.
00:30:37
It's not what I've been told.
00:30:38
This is just my interpretation.
00:30:39
I think he's talking a lot about Christopher and Kunku there.
00:30:43
Maybe not only, but I think the Christopher and Kunku situation is definitely prominent in that.
00:30:50
It was notable that against Wolves, he didn't feature.
00:30:54
And he's, he's now not the, he's now falling below Jalfelix in the pecking order of attackers that Meresco will turn to on his bench.
00:31:06
And I don't think that's got anything to do with quality, because some Kunku is an exceptionally high quality player.
00:31:11
But it's quite clear he's not happy with this Chelsea situation.
00:31:17
It's out there that, you know, there could be something with Bayern, maybe not this month, but in the summer, it's all a bit uncertain.
00:31:25
And yeah, it's not ideal, because you have also Nicholas Jackson struggling to score, and you don't have the high quality alternative in the squad that you thought you had, because when and Kunku has played in recent weeks,
00:31:39
he hasn't looked completely engaged.
00:31:42
So yeah, I don't think that was entirely about him, but I do think he's a good example of what Meresco is talking about, in that you, you've got a squad, but you don't necessarily have the full utility of that squad,
00:31:53
because some players are not necessarily fully focused and not necessarily ready to give 100, 110%.
00:32:01
The problem is though, we had reported that Chelsea are inquiring about Alejandro Ganacho, but Manchester United and Jimmy Gitons at Bruce Adortman.
00:32:11
So everybody's playing the game, Chelsea included.
00:32:14
So either Meresco is asking for the abolition of the January window, which a lot of people might think is, it's not a terrible idea, because as we say all the time, clubs just do not want to be operating or active at this time of year.
00:32:25
They don't want to have problems mid-season, but for as long as it exists, Chelsea are doing what everybody else is doing.
00:32:33
What do you think Phil?
00:32:34
I think a lot of coaches would vote for that to abolish the January window, but I think a lot of owners would not.
00:32:40
I think a lot of players, I think.
00:32:43
Now, interest in with players.
00:32:45
Yeah, I wonder if players could really do without that, but I think I agree with you.
00:32:49
I think coaches would vote for it, but it wouldn't be long in season one before many of them were regretting that decision.
00:32:57
When it gets to January and you don't have enough incentive mid as Manchester City do, or you need a striker or, as I read this morning, Chelsea won another winger.
00:33:06
It is there for the opportunistic, it is, as I've said before, it's quite often there for the desperate, but it is your only chance mid-season to make a tweak to your squad.
00:33:16
I get the frustration with it, but I think there would be a bit of concern if it was disciplining completely.
00:33:21
Yeah, you're spot on, but also I ain't say players because I'm thinking about Kuhnir at Wolves funny enough.
00:33:28
A player that is clearly a very good player, Phil.
00:33:32
You can understand why he might be delaying contractual conversations at this point in time.
00:33:37
He's not quite sure where Wolves might be going in the league.
00:33:40
This might be a really good opportunity to maybe go play for a novelty.
00:33:44
Yeah, and by all accounts, Body Language was not great.
00:33:46
Last night, Vittor Pereira called him out for that, which I thought was quite striking and will have been done deliberately, and it is difficult.
00:33:56
I mean, you quite often see it.
00:33:57
I remember it, and this is niche, but I remember seeing it with Jameen Beck for the leads.
00:34:02
A lot of talking a particular January window when leads were trying to get promoted from league one about Newcastle signing him, and Beck for Body Language kind of, you know, sagging to a certain degree until the situation was resolved and he was staying and they got out the transfer window,
00:34:17
and suddenly it was all parked until the end of the season, and I think it does help to clear a player's head.
00:34:22
I mean, Kuhnir is really interesting actually.
00:34:24
I tell you what surprised me was to look at him earlier and see that he scored 13 goals this season, and I get that, you know, a feral chunk of those have been in the conference league,
00:34:35
but it's all a bit blurry and a bit opaque because it doesn't feel like he's been on the scene, and it's a strange deal whereby, okay, he joined a club in a state of flux,
00:34:45
and he had that knee injury as soon as he joined, but I'm a little bit surprised that it hasn't worked out for him better.
00:34:52
I get that when he speaks, he seems to talk as if tennis has preferred position, and you can see who's got that shot at the moment, and isn't going to be letting it go any time soon, but all the noises seem to suggest that from his point of view,
00:35:05
and perhaps on a personal level, he's kind of getting round to the way of thinking that a return to Germany would be good for him.
00:35:10
Yeah, I guess the injury probably didn't help either, did it Liam?
00:35:14
You know, you get signed, and then you never really get to play that preseason with the team properly, and actually hit the ground running in the Premier League.
00:35:23
Yeah, I think in Concours Chelsea could go down as one of the all-time sliding doors stories in modern football, because I covered that preseason, the 2023 preseason,
00:35:35
and he looked superb.
00:35:36
I mean, you can never read too much into those games, obviously, that there are no stakes, frequently patchwork teams, but he looked really, really good.
00:35:46
He was combining really well with Nicholas Jackson.
00:35:49
He wasn't importantly playing as a number nine.
00:35:51
He was playing as kind of a second striker number 10.
00:35:55
Col Parmer, of course, wasn't there at that point, and it looked like, well, in fact, it was, Maurizio Pogetino was building the attack around him.
00:36:05
He was the brain of the attack, and Chelsea looked really good in attacking that preseason, and then that friend Ligant's brisky-adortment in Chicago, that Ed Sheeran concert ripping up the pitch.
00:36:18
It's always good to trouble, isn't it?
00:36:22
No direct links, I just like to say it for a laugh.
00:36:25
He gets this knee injury in a collision with Matt's humbles, and misses half the season, and by the time he gets back, not only has he missed that time,
00:36:37
but Chelsea are a different team because they've found Col Parmer, and Col Parmer is Chelsea already at that point.
00:36:45
He's established himself as the man in the position and Kung-Ku wants to play, and this is why I thought, from the moment and Kung-Ku got back to fitness, I thought the most interesting question for Pogetino,
00:36:56
and it became the most interesting question for Mareska, can you fit them both in the same team, because I think they're two of Chelsea's five best footballers.
00:37:05
And ideally, you would want them both in, if you could get them both in the same attack, in a team that's actually balanced, I think it would be really,
00:37:15
really scary.
00:37:16
So did they think that they could, the Pogetino think that you could fit them both into the same team, because clearly they've signed them both, but to look at, certainly to look at this system,
00:37:26
it doesn't look like there's space for both unless Parmer's injured.
00:37:30
To be honest, I think Pogetino wasn't necessarily the driving force of the Parmer signing, that was a talent evaluation by Chelsea, by the recruitment team,
00:37:41
and Pogetino wasn't necessarily expecting Parmer to be as good as he was from day one.
00:37:48
And so I don't think Pogetino was necessarily thinking about that ahead of time, but then once you're in that situation, you are thinking about how to try to balance it.
00:37:57
Pogetino never, never found a way to do it, and to be honest, and Kunku wasn't fit enough to make it a real question anyway last season.
00:38:05
Maresco was the one who had the quandary, and it's clear he decided very, very quickly that it wasn't going to work.
00:38:13
I mean, you go back to the opening day of the season, Chelsea lined up with Cole Palmer on the right wing, and Kunku on the left, and Nicholas Jackson up front, and at half time,
00:38:24
it just clearly was not working, Manchester City were winning at a canter at Stanford Bridge, despite being less than full strength, and Kunku looked completely uncomfortable on the left wing.
00:38:33
Palmer looked completely uninvolved on the right wing, because even when he started on the right for Pogetino, the first thing he did really was move into the number 10 spot with Gusto overlapping on the outside.
00:38:45
So then Maresco came upon what he's largely pursued since, which is let's move Palmer into that right pocket,
00:38:55
into the day fact, no number 10 spot, with a true wing out outside him, whether it be Noni Madwaka or Pedro Netto, and that means there's no room for Kunku.
00:39:06
You can potentially play him in that left-date spot, but usually that's either Enzo Fernandez, or it's Mark Cucurea sprinting up from left back, inverting into attacking the field.
00:39:17
So the system doesn't really allow for it, as you say, Phil, and when Maresco's been asked about it, he's basically said, "I'd love to play Cole, Christo, Zhao,
00:39:27
all together, but someone needs to defend."
00:39:30
And you can kind of see what he's talking about.
00:39:33
The challenge of a coach is to find a balance, and that's why he's tried to play and Kunku as a number nine, but he's not a natural number nine in the way that Jackson has proven to be,
00:39:45
I think, in terms of the things that he does.
00:39:48
And so he's the second choice number nine, which you would say is a job.
00:39:51
I think talent-wise, it's a job he's vastly overqualified for, and he clearly feels vastly overqualified for it by his demeanor, and by the fact that there's already talk of him leaving.
00:40:02
Okay, and let's quickly speed through some of the potential incoming to this month.
00:40:08
Liam will start with you on this one.
00:40:10
We've reported Chelsea a set to sign teenage defender, mumbo do South from a Strasbourg, obviously, part of the wider group.
00:40:17
What can you tell us about that deal?
00:40:19
Yeah, so it's a fairly cheap upside-play for Chelsea.
00:40:23
South, it's the profile of player that they typically target as kind of a longer-term development project.
00:40:30
He hasn't played that many games for Strasbourg yet.
00:40:34
He won't be joining Chelsea in this window.
00:40:37
He won't join properly until the summer, and then presumably they will decide what his development plan looks like from then, whether it's going back to Strasbourg or going on loan somewhere else.
00:40:50
I would be quite surprised if he was immediately in the first team picture at Chelsea, given the centre-backs that they already have, and given the fact that I think they are looking to sign a centre-back next summer and established one.
00:41:03
I mean, they looked at Mark Gay this month.
00:41:05
Gay will, of course, still be available next summer.
00:41:09
There will be other options open to Chelsea that won't open to them in this winter market.
00:41:15
So, Sarah, I think, is not really much of a headline deal.
00:41:19
It's the kind of deal that you're going to see semi-regularly in the blue co-ownership, but they're going to make these signings kind of talent acquisition,
00:41:32
teenage talent acquisition, with a view to potentially being something someday.
00:41:38
Okay, well Phil, we spoke about what you did anyway, Gunaccio.
00:41:42
We've reported it actually athletic of Manchester United.
00:41:45
A player Chelsea might be interested in.
00:41:47
Jamie Gittens, as well from Dortmund, has also been linked to Bolster the squad, and I'm just thinking in terms of what we were talking about balance.
00:41:54
Do Chelsea need any more attacking players in this squad?
00:41:58
What are you watching, Pablo?
00:42:00
You know what Liam was saying about transfers being the refuge of the week.
00:42:03
Sorry to put that another way.
00:42:05
You know what Liam was saying about Mauricio Sani saying that about transfers.
00:42:09
They can be a bit of like a Twitter fans dream Chelsea, in the sense that any time there's an issue, you know, signs from one else.
00:42:17
Maybe they need them.
00:42:20
Obviously, there's the situation with Mudric, which is depriving them of a player for the time being and who knows for how long.
00:42:29
And I can see how both players would be a decent fit for Chelsea.
00:42:35
I never quite know what to make of Gunaccio if I'm totally honest, but there's no doubt at all that Gittens is a rising star at Dortmund, and very good things have been said and written about him this season.
00:42:47
So yes, I think there are players that they'd be tempted by, but you do feel like they will come a day where, you know, without recruitment ceasing completely because it never does it at any club,
00:42:58
Chelsea will maybe have to start finding, you know, solutions to problems within from time to time.
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00:44:08
This is the Athletic FCE podcast with all of you, Akima Lera.
00:44:19
Against Petrovich.
00:44:21
Mixed No Mistake.
00:44:22
It is his first hot trick for Wolves.
00:44:26
And he inflicts more misery at Stunford Bridge for Chelsea.
00:44:30
Yeah, how time flies, eh?
00:44:32
That goal was from last season's home match against Wolves, which ended 4-2.
00:44:37
Mauricio Pochettino's team ended up getting booed off the pitch because they lost that match fair to say that, you know what, things have changed.
00:44:44
Only just slightly, I would say, Liam.
00:44:46
Yep, they've definitely improved a bit.
00:44:48
I mean, I remember that game has been the one that effectively retired Thiago Silva as a Premier League defender quite brutally.
00:44:56
I mean, it, well, it only ever happens brutally, doesn't it, for older defenders in the Premier League.
00:45:01
And it was Pedro Netto, funnily enough, who was the tormentor in chief that day.
00:45:07
A lot has changed, I think, in a lot of ways Chelsea structurally looked better.
00:45:14
But they still have some issues and it is quite funny to think we're, we're a year removed from that, we're also a couple of weeks removed from Chelsea fans seeing we've got our Chelsea back when they were second in the league,
00:45:27
four points off the top of the table.
00:45:29
I don't know where we'll be three, four weeks from now, but it seems to be changing all the time.
00:45:36
Yeah, it's quite an interesting one for the fan bases, isn't it, Phil?
00:45:39
Thought last week, last season, sorry, I should say, things were looking quite doom and gloom.
00:45:44
Then towards the back end of the season, oh, looks like they're coming back.
00:45:47
And then you get rid of the coach brand new coach comes in.
00:45:50
We've got a Chelsea back top end of the season.
00:45:52
And now you're sort of seen if you can find fourth again, I mean, where is this fan base right now mentally and there must be physically and mentally dread surely.
00:45:59
I feel like they should without being delighted about the way it's going.
00:46:04
I feel like they should be, I feel like they should be relatively content.
00:46:08
When, when you set this conversation against the conversation we were having back in August when literally none of us could predict how this was going to go, or where it was, was going to end,
00:46:19
they are very much in the running for fourth place.
00:46:22
And I think Champions League football from here is probably going to depend not purely on Chelsea's results, but on two other things as well.
00:46:30
How forest hold up with this form, which, you know, you got feeling is that that bubble will bust to some extent at some point and they will start to go backwards.
00:46:39
But also what happens with Manchester City.
00:46:42
And if they find, if they kind of find themselves again and start to piece together the sort of runs that they put together every season, it's surely not going to be enough for the title this time round.
00:46:53
But it will get them into the Champions League next season.
00:46:56
You would assume that that would happen.
00:46:58
As I said right at the top, this has definitely been a slump on Chelsea's part, but it has really been the first one of the season.
00:47:06
It doesn't feel as if people are bouncing off the walls with excitement at Chelsea, and I can never fail to think back to how it was for Mariska at Leicester.
00:47:15
Well, you know, give or take the best results you could have asked for, want enough for a lot of people in that crowd, regardless of how well it was going and how well he seemed to be doing as a coach.
00:47:26
But they're not in bad shape.
00:47:28
I don't think the squad is perfectly balanced.
00:47:31
I think there's what to be done with it.
00:47:33
I don't think fourth isn't clearly not nailed on, but I don't think it's theirs for the take in either.
00:47:38
It's going to be a bit of a royal rumble for that as time goes on.
00:47:41
But, compared to last season, this is surely better, though.
00:47:45
I guess also, you know, is this where we saw Mariska being when he took over at Chelsea?
00:47:53
I think we've now got a decent sample size to see how this team is trying to play under him, but also look, FA Cup, conference league, you know, they're doing quite well,
00:48:03
comfortably.
00:48:04
I, we happy, we wear his out right now, or do you still feel there's a level of over achievement at this moment?
00:48:09
In some ways, I'm kind of pleasantly surprised at Chelsea are where they are after the first half of the season because you cast your mind back to preseason.
00:48:19
They shipped four to Celtic.
00:48:21
They shipped four to City's Reserves.
00:48:24
They looked a bit of a mess, frankly, and again, can't read too much into preseason, but Mariska's tactical principles didn't seem to be too tightly embraced at that point,
00:48:39
or too tightly wound into this group of players.
00:48:43
And I think he's proven more adaptable at Chelsea than a lot of people expected in terms of not being entirely dogmatic about this slow possession style.
00:48:56
We don't like counter-attacks.
00:48:58
Well, Chelsea, one of the best counter-attacking teams in the league.
00:49:00
They're one of the best faster attacking teams in the league.
00:49:04
And I think they've, yeah, they've been pretty effective and pretty consistent, I would say, in terms of the way that they get themselves into good positions in games.
00:49:15
I don't remember too many games this year where you get five minutes in and you just think, "Oh, Chelsea aren't at it today."
00:49:22
They're just not bringing the level of intensity you need to compete in the Premier League.
00:49:27
I did see that quite a lot under Graham Potter, even under Mauricio Pochettino, there were days where that was very much the case.
00:49:34
And I think that's to Mariska's credit.
00:49:37
It shows that his voice is getting through with the majority of this group, at least the players that are playing regularly.
00:49:44
But there are, there are question marks about the team, about the squad.
00:49:48
I think as much as we've talked about other positions in relation to the transfer market, I am relentlessly amazed by Chelsea's lack of urgency to look at their midfield because Moise's Cicero went down for a few minutes against Wolves and there was this collective intake of breath around Stanford Bridge because he is Chelsea's midfield right now.
00:50:13
Enzo Fernandez is injured.
00:50:15
Romeo Lavia plays one game and then he's just out for an indeterminate period of time, it seems.
00:50:21
He's the only one who can remotely do what he does to balance the team in the middle of the pitch.
00:50:28
And I do think if Chelsea missed Cicero for any significant period of time between now and May, they will not get top four because he's the one holding this team together.
00:50:38
Colp, I wrote it a couple of weeks ago.
00:50:40
Colp harm is their best player.
00:50:41
Cicero is their least replaceable as things stand.
00:50:45
Okay, well, let's leave it there.
00:50:47
Liam, I know you've got to go, but thank you so much for your time and I will definitely speak to you soon.
00:50:52
Well, it was a pleasure, guys.
00:50:53
Thanks.
00:50:53
Very quickly, Phil.
00:50:54
Well, I've still got you.
00:50:55
Let's go over one of the biggest pieces of transfer news over the last few days.
00:50:59
He's David Ornstein on West Ham's bid for Aston Villa's John Giran.
00:51:04
Look, his clear John Giran is one of the foremost strikers in World Football right now and that's why he's generating so much interest from suitors.
00:51:11
We saw the likes of Chelsea and West Ham pursue him last summer and the admiration has only increased with his form for Aston Villa.
00:51:21
Most recently, West Ham have come back to the table and we exclusively revealed on the athletic on Monday that they made an offer of 57 million pounds,
00:51:32
including add-ons, but that was rejected by Villa because they have no intention of selling him.
00:51:38
If they were to, their valuation is much higher, upwards of 100 million pounds or euros and that's reflective of a player that they see continuing with them for the foreseeable future.
00:51:50
That won't stop teams trying to prize him from Villa Park, maybe this month, maybe next summer, but they're going to continue to rebuff them unless it comes somewhere close to what they would be willing to part with him for.
00:52:05
West Ham clearly have a need to bolster an attack with injuries to Jaroboan and Nicholas Falkrug and also the terrible car crash that McKay-Lantonio was involved in,
00:52:18
but they'll most likely have to look elsewhere unless they are able to go higher and I'm really not sure they are.
00:52:25
What we're seeing here is an imbalance between supply and demand of top strikers around Europe.
00:52:31
Clubs want them, but they are in relatively short supply and that creates an inflation in the price of those who are on the market and Jarann is certainly a higher among them.
00:52:44
So let's see how this one develops, but for now Jarann is staying at Ashton Villa and if Clubs want to change that, they're going to have to pay a pretty penny.
00:52:53
Yeah, that was David Ornstein on John Jarann potentially going to West Ham, Phil, and I've got to say this is an interesting deal potentially because I can understand why Jarann might want to go to West Ham and obviously they need a striker,
00:53:09
but Phil have just bought Marlin as well from Dortmund.
00:53:12
What do you make of this deal?
00:53:14
And I suppose more to the point, if you're looking for an avenue to exploit, doesn't get that much game time.
00:53:20
Versus the number of goals that he scores when he does come onto the pitch, he's really, really prolific as a self, but we were talking in the Chelsea section about in Concours at Chelsea.
00:53:30
It's a similar sort of thing at Villa, you know that you've got all the walkings up front and for Durand, it has been a struggle to muscle his way in, no matter how spectacular his goals have been or how often he does score when he comes off the bench.
00:53:43
My observation here would be that the difference between West Ham's valuation or their offer and Asden Villa's valuation would make me assume that there is zero chance of this happening in this window.
00:53:56
If Villa is committed to keeping Durand as they say they are and I think the signs are that that is, you know, that is a genuine attitude on their front, I think they do want him to stay.
00:54:07
Then West Ham are going to have to go considerably higher and it's hard to see how they get close to the sort of money that Villa would want, given that Villa are not willing sellers in these circumstances.
00:54:17
So I guess it's the sort of offer that maybe starts to test Villa's resolve a little bit, but it would be a shock to me if they didn't dig their heels in on this one.
00:54:26
All right, Phil, thank you so much for your time and also Liam as well for earlier.
00:54:31
More on Chelsea and also the January transfer window, go to the athletic right now and check it out.
00:54:36
We'll see you tomorrow.
00:54:37
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