A special thanks to Kevin Indig, VP of Content for hopping on the show on such short notice but we thought the topic and tweet were both very interesting.

<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><figcaption>To see the full thread visit his Tweet.</figcaption></figure>

Kevin got some great responses so check them out as there is a great list of reasons, ideas and discussion.

If you like podcasts and want another one to check out, Tech Bound is Kevin’s own podcast.

Do You Make a Strong Business Case?

Kevin’s first response to his own question is that SEOs traditionally have been bad at making business cases for the budget and resources. We often talk not in dollars and sales but other metrics (if any) instead.

What is the impact of your project? While we can’t guarantee results, an attempt should be made to “speak dollar” and present a real business case backed by the impact to the bottom line.

Test, document and start small. Look for small wins to convince executives and higher ups to give you more budget and resources. You don’t have to have exact and super complex formulas to predict impact but do the work and use what data you have to try and give a best estimate for what that impact will do to sales and leads.

I’d add are included in that thread but I think the most important consideration is whether or not the SEO team has (and has earned) a seat at the table; and has fostered a positive relationship with the CTO/dev team leads.

– Michelle Robbins

In-House SEO is a Skill

Build on small wins to get more resources and budget. Start by asking for 30 minutes of development resources and then show the uplift. Move to more hours and bigger projects. The goal is to stack win after win and show over and over that SEO projects can move the needle and drive a great ROI.

When you do these tests make sure your data is as connected to the money (i.e. leads, sales, revenue!) as you can.

I would say … because of lack of influence. The in house SEOs who have a harder time getting buy in. Is because they’re not 1) high enough in the organization so easier to overlook 2) The SEO work is not integrated with the product/marketing areas which is critical

– Aleyda Solis

Adjust Your Story’s Angle for the Audience

If you are pitching your boss, the CEO, the owner of the company, CMO, CTO, CFO, VP of Development, CRO, or whatever person/role – speak to that audience.

Adjust your slides, pitch, metrics and story all for whom you are speaking too. Each department and role will have different metrics and goals that they care about and to win them over it will take different points from each other.

How to Master the Art of Inhouse SEO

To dig deeper check out Kevin’s own recent article on this topic check out his blog and learn about the following problems and solutions.

1. Problem 1: Not enough resources
2. Problem 2: Technical SEO lives in Marketing instead of Product
3. Problem 3: SEOs can’t show the value of SEO

Full Transcript

Matt Siltala: [00:00:00 ] Welcome to another exciting episode of the business of digital podcast, featuring your host, Matt silt and Dave roar. Hey guys, excited to have everybody on another one of these business of digital podcast episodes. And today we have a special guest with us, Dave. Uh, we have Kevin indig with G2 and so welcome, Kevin.

I appreciate you joining us today.

Kevin Indig: [00:00:25 ] It’s a pleasure to be on. Thanks for having me.

Matt Siltala: [00:00:27 ] And I know that we’ve got Dave over there. How’s it going, bud?

Dave Rohrer: [00:00:29 ] I am here. Ready to ramble.

Matt Siltala: [00:00:31 ] All right. So let’s get ready to ramble. Okay. We don’t want to get sued for that. So scratch that just all right. So, um, what we’ll do, uh, Kevin, because I just gave you that quick intro that you’re with G2, but you are the vice president of content and SEO.

And so if there’s anything else that you think that, uh, our listeners would like to hear about you, like, feel free to just give a little intro about yourself. And then I know that Dave will jump in and cause a, you know, the whole purpose of us chatting with you. He, [00:01:00 ] he found a tweet that you did.

Interesting. And so, uh, we’ll just take it from there and

Kevin Indig: [00:01:04 ] sounds good to me. Yeah. I’m not going to dwell on for too long. Um, I’ve been in this. Space that is SEO for a bit. Over 10 years now started on the agency side, then moved in house, worked at companies like, um, Searchmetrics, steady motion, Atlassian, and now G2.

Um, and, uh, yeah, I started in the very technical SEO space broaden up over time. And now, um, I’m more or less at the intersection of SEO and growth. Um, and also write a, a weekly, uh, email or a newsletter called tech balance. Um, that fills up 99% of my time.

Matt Siltala: [00:01:38 ] Excellent. So Dave, if you’re ready, just jump in. Uh, let’s get to the tweet and, and we’ll go from there

Dave Rohrer: [00:01:46 ] and Kevin didn’t mention it, but he’s also done a number of videos on YouTube that will include a link to it with some good interviews.

Some of them are pretty technical. So for some of our listeners that don’t give a hoot about technical SEO stuff. Um, some of them might not [00:02:00 ] work, but there’s a ton of them that no matter what your space is, it will probably be interesting. So the question that you posed, mr. Kevin was a legit question as you pose, as you said, why do you think in house SEOs have such a hard time getting engineering design resources before we dig into any that I was able to.

Procure from a couple people or from your responses, what would be your initial response?

Kevin Indig: [00:02:29 ] Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. I, my initial response would be, is because SEOs don’t make good business cases and I’m probably going to offend a couple of people with that. Um, and that’s okay. But I think that we don’t seek enough responsibility on our own side.

And I think that. In most cases. Um, and I include myself from, uh, into that. Don’t get me wrong. I think I learned over time. I think I got really good at this, but I used to not be good at this at all. Right. And I, I know what the other side looks like. So I think most of the time we just bring asks to the table.

We don’t show [00:03:00 ] opportunities enough. We don’t speak dollar enough. And, uh, that’s one of the reasons for why SEO is don’t get enough resources.

Dave Rohrer: [00:03:08 ] Can you give an example from.

Kevin Indig: [00:03:11 ] Yes, of course. So something like, Hey, I need say eight hours of engineering or developer time to fix broken titles. That’s a really weak business case that makes sense to SEL, but that does tell it tells nothing too CMOs, CPO, CTO, CEOs, any C suite person, any VP person, probably not like maybe it’s something directors depending on how big the company is.

And so instead, what you want to say is, Hey, What I need is X amount of time and you can, it doesn’t have to be a hundred percent exact, right. But you have to have some sort of rationale. And what I want to do is going to do X and the result of that. Is probably going to drive X conversions or maybe even dollars.

Right? That’s the important point? Like what [00:04:00 ] is the impact of what you are suggestion suggesting? And I perfectly know that we’re dealing with imperfect information, SEO. We cannot guarantee results. And there’s a lot of complexity involved, but that does, that should not be an excuse for us to just lay back and say, I don’t know, you know, live with it because reality is that a lot of things are very uncertain in business, but other departments seem to make a better business case to get resources.

So we can go really deep into the complexity of making these business cases and how to quote unquote, speak dollar. But that’s in my mind. One of the biggest problems or maybe the biggest one that holds SEOs back. I changed my opinion over time. Right. I used to think that it’s all about the latest trick and going super technical.

And that’s where all the gold is, but that’s not where the gold is. The gold is in getting things done.

Matt Siltala: [00:04:52 ] I love that. You say that I love that you put it that way because that’s what I’ve been trying to preach forever. I, I, I get so [00:05:00 ] frustrated sometimes that just like following the shiny things, you know what I mean?

Yeah,

Kevin Indig: [00:05:04 ] and there’s another shiny stuff out there. Don’t get me wrong. I love SEO. I’ve been,