✨【EP12 Azmyl Yunor的搖滾、馬來西亞、與約翰萬宜藍調《John Bangi Blues》】✨



🎙️ 來賓：Azmyl Yunor

🎙️ 主持人：何東洪 Tung-Hung Ho



本集邀請馬來西亞獨立音樂人Azmyl Yunor 來到和平東路實驗室做現場表演及亞際對話。這也是他首次在臺灣巡迴演出中的一場。受到龐克、搖滾、獨立音樂文化啟蒙，他的歌曲經常以社會評論的姿態介入馬來西亞的文化與政治。本集帶您認識Azmyl的音樂與政治，他創新又在地的藍調融合了對家鄉萬宜發展的思索、對國族政治與族群問題的批判，以及對音樂創作人身份的深刻反思。



📌本集精華📌

0:00 「約翰萬宜藍調」：一張專輯的誕生

4:07 三首關於家鄉萬宜的歌：幽靈大貨車、煽動者的藍調、我啥都不想買

8:25 突破族群意識的Orang Kita：從「穆斯林馬來人」到「我們人民」

10:07 第一首表演歌曲："Orang Kita" 我們人民

13:50 參與實驗與龐克音樂社群

17:12 創造自己的演奏與合作（Do-It-Together）模式

21:06 去殖民的批判聲響

23:56 第二首表演曲目：I don’t want to buy anything我啥都不想買

26:39 用表演串起亞際共同感覺

30:35 全職還是兼職音樂人，重要嗎？

36:45 合而為一的專業：電影與新聞

40:03 第三曲目表演 “It’s Not Easy“不容易啊





📌工作團隊📌

監製籌劃 Producer: 蔡如音 Eva Tsai

助理製作 Assistant Producer：李書瑜 Tina Lee

來賓/表演者 Guest Performer: Azmyl Yunor主持人 Host: 何東洪 Tung-Hung Ho攝影 Camera Operators: 黃貫之 Jake Huang、陳奕銓 Frank Chen、林欣賢 Paul Lin

收音 Production Sound Mixer：廖彥琳 Eno Liao

錄音/混音指導 Audio and Sound Consultant: 蔡金翰 Chris Leo Tsai

攝影指導 Director of Photography: 梁紹文 Shao-Wen Liang

平面攝影 Still Photographer：蔡安步 Anbu Tsai

後製剪輯 Post Production Editing：王璟 Jean Wang

中英翻譯校對 Transcript and Subtitle Translation：林欣賢Paul Lin、陳奕銓Frank Chen、Eva Tsai、王璟 Jean Wang





📌音樂📌

・《Orang Kita》 https://youtu.be/F1JbpH1V2HA?si=k1Sj0_TgkVeIyTML

・《I don’t want to buy anything》 https://youtu.be/4hyBIcxnJFY?si=kViamzvAacfFuPAb





📌系列簡介 📌

【MIT作者對談】

這是一個關於台灣流行音樂的Podcast節目。節目發想來自Routledge 於2020年出版的一本書：Made in Taiwan: Studies in PopularMusic（台灣製造：流行音樂研究），節目的製作與參與者也是這本書的編者Eva與作者群。



【瞭解我們】

臺師大大傳所官網 https://www.mcom.ntnu.edu.tw/

和平東路實驗室 https://www.youtube.com/@NTNUHopingLab



責編：王璟



📌逐字稿Transcript 📌



1.「約翰萬宜藍調」：一張專輯的誕生



HO

Okay welcome, Azmyl, to Taiwan.

Azmyl，歡迎來台灣!



YUNOR

Thank you. Thank you.

謝謝，謝謝你!



HO

Especially during this kind of post-Covid era. Your latest release in like 2020. It's called John Bangi Blues. Bangi is 萬宜. [The album] actually is very heartily welcomed by a lot of people who are really into music.

尤其是在後疫情時代，你在2020年的最新發行叫做《約翰萬宜藍調John Bangi Blues》。Bangi 即是「萬宜」，這張專輯受到許多音樂愛好者的熱烈歡迎。



Can you talk about your idea of releasing a very kind of a rock—back to the roots of the rock music—during the Covid period?

你能談談為何在疫情期間發行一張回歸搖滾音樂的專輯嗎？



YUNOR

Yeah, well the roots of the album began before Covid so it relates closely to the politics and economy in Malaysia around 2018, when we had this election. For the first time the ruling party lost. The ruling coalition lost and particularly one character, you know, former prime minister Najib so he was this character that was, well, annoying to me. Very annoying (laugh).

嗯，其實這張專輯的根源是在疫情之前就開始了，它與2018年馬來西亞的政治和經濟情勢有很大的關聯。當時我們國家進行了大選，也是執政黨首次失利，執政聯盟失去了政權，特別是一個人物，前首相Najib（納吉），他讓我感到厭煩，非常厭煩（笑）。



But of course I also became a father in 2016, so it was a period of where I was considering “Can I still do this?”

而我也在2016年也成為了父親，所以那段時間我在思考著：我還能繼續做這些嗎？



HO

Since you become a father, why your songs were so more fiercely right? (YUNOR: Exactly) Your folk music, especially your Fender guitar. You so attack it the guitars yes it's so attacking

你成為了父親，但你的音樂怎麼聽起來更為兇猛了，對吧？（YUNOR：沒錯）特別是你對你那把Fender吉他的方式，簡直就是在攻擊它。



YUNOR

Yes, I was afraid I’d get mellow. I thought I would become father mellow right, about my children, you know. But I was pleasantly surprised. Actually, the album I had envisioned it to be…you know this album by Bob Dylan called John Wesley Harding. It’s a trio, you know, with guitar, bass, acoustic?

我當時擔心自己會變得溫馴，我以為成為父親後，會因為孩子變得更溫和，但是我開心地發現並不是這樣。其實我原本想把這張專輯做成像 Bob Dylan 的《John Wesley Harding》那樣的風格，它是三重奏的編制：吉他、貝斯以及原聲樂器。



HO

When he released it, it surprised people, right? (YUNOR: Yes.) …back to the western kind of roots right?

當《John Wesley Harding》發行時，確實讓大家感到驚訝，對吧？像回到西方源頭的感覺。



YUNOR

Yes, I love the album. So the songs that I came up with…well I wrote those songs while taking care of my children, you know, in between. They're twins.

是的，我愛死了那張專輯。寫這些歌時，我都是利用照顧我雙胞胎孩子的空檔完成的。



So I became more disciplined with my songwriting. and I think that's why the songs were compact, on the dot and I envision it to be acoustic like John Wesley Harding so hence the name, John Bangi Blues, initially. That's one reason. There's several more.

我很有紀律的寫歌，可能因為如此這些歌曲聽起來非常緊湊。我想讓它具備《John Wesley Harding》的原聲風格，這也是為什麼專輯名稱叫《John Bangi Blues》，但這只是其中一個原因，還有其他原因。



Then in 2019 I went to the studio. I wanted to record with one of my other bands. But they're a bigger band and they were too busy. So I called two friends who I really wanted to try collaborating with, which was a bassist called Chris, Kristopher Chong who plays a bit in my other band AYOP Orkes Padu. And Ammar Khairi who's a drummer in my noise rock band which we toured in Taiwan in 2019. I always wanted to do something. He was such a great rock drummer so we went to studio. I brought acoustic guitar but I just brought my telly (Telecaster by Fender) along in case. When I started jamming in the studio, it just didn't feel…you know, like “It's not nice. Hold on guys!” (HO: Mixed energy yeah?) Yeah it was just too low. Okay I put my electric out. Okay man, it's gonna be the telly.

然後在2019年，我去了錄音室，想跟我其他的樂團錄些什麼，但那些團比較大，而且非常忙。因此我請了兩位我非常想合作的朋友，就是我的貝斯手克里斯 (Kristopher Chong)，他也參加了我的另一個樂隊AYOP和Orkes Padu。還有鼓手阿瑪(Ammar Khairi)，他是我噪音龐克搖滾樂隊的鼓手，我們 2019年在台灣巡演過。我其實一直都想和他合作，他是一位非常棒的搖滾鼓手。我們去了錄音室並且帶上了我的木吉他，但我也還是帶上了telly（Telecaster, Fender出品的電吉他暱稱），以防在錄音室開始即興演奏時有什麼狀況。當我在錄音室開始即興演奏時，感覺…你知道「啊～感覺不太對，等一下，大家！」(HO：不在同個頻率上？）沒錯，可能不夠力吧，所以我就決定用電吉他了。



HO

Yeah, especially the first song so called Penghutsu Blues. It’s in the first track right? It’s defining the sounds of this album. Can you talk more about this different kind of blues, the meaning of it…especially this sound and the other track is different kind of feeling. You said you wanted to express something about the situation. But actually not all the music are that political oriented (YUNOR yeah they're not they're not) [there are] some different kind of things [expressed] especially the second track is “Lori Hantu” kind of Malaysian track right? (YUNOR: yes yes) It's kind of a working class people track.

尤其是第一首歌叫《煽動者的藍調Penghutsu Blues》，這是專輯的第一首歌，定義了這張專輯的聲音。你能多談談這麼另類的藍調音樂嗎？特別是這首歌的意義與它的聲響？似乎跟其他曲目有不同的感受？它評論當前情況，但也並不是你所有歌都在評論政治，別的主題，尤其是第二首曲目是《Lori Hantu幽靈大貨車》，非常馬來西亞風格的曲子，也是描繪勞動階級經驗的歌。





2,三首關於家鄉萬宜的歌：幽靈大貨車、煽動者的藍調、我啥都不想買



YUNOR

So I think I’ll put the context of the second reason about this album. When I first started performing in…well okay that's the name, but let me talk about John Bangi as Bangi. So I'm from the town called Bangi. That's my hometown. So Bangi is South of Kuala Lumpur. South of Kuala Lumpur isn't a cool area to live. People want to live north of KL you know. When I say that I'm from Bangi, they’ll say “Oh that's very far.” It's not far. There’s a highway man. It's like 20 minutes by car.

沒錯。我想來談一下專輯的第二個緣由。讓我先談談萬宜（Bangi），我來自一個叫萬宜的城鎮，那是我的家鄉。萬宜位在吉隆坡的南部，吉隆坡以南不是一個適合居住的好地方，人們通常會想要住在吉隆坡北部。當我說我來自萬宜時，人們會說「哦，那很遠耶！」，但其實不遠，開車上高速公路大約20分鐘就能到吉隆坡。



But I've lived there since I was 12, and it's a very conservative town. Islamic party is the the mainstay there. Next to Bangi is the town called Kajang which is a lot more diverse. It's an economic town, with bigger Chinese community but it's also south, so it's near the airport and there's a lot of industries there. Palm oil. A lot of stuff going on. So I thought I wanted to do something about that region. So hence that are about Bangi as a town is a very middle class Malay Muslim town. A lot of people from different parts of Malaysia come there to live because it's probably cheaper initially to live there. So the album is a commentary—a social critique about the middle class values about being a new middle class. But Lori Hantu is something very common there because there's a lot of developments. (HO: So you can see all the trucks every day on the highway ) Yes on the highway! And you know they use usually recycled tires and the tires would explode. And you drive, you see like rubber on the road. And then you see big lorries because that’s usually what happens with the palm oil estate.

我從12歲就住在那裡，那是一個非常保守的城鎮，伊斯蘭黨在那裡是主要的勢力。萬宜旁邊有個叫Kajang的城鎮，那裡的多元化程度相對高些，是一個經濟發達的城鎮，也有龐大的華人社區。它位於南部並且靠近機場，附近有許多產業，像是棕櫚油等，所以我想寫關於這個地區的歌。萬宜是一個非常中產的馬來穆斯林社區，馬來西亞不同地區的人們都會搬來這裡居住，因為生活成本相對較低。



這張專輯是社會評論，針對中產階級價值觀的批判，特別是關於成為一個新中產階級的問題。所以在那裡有「幽靈大貨車」《Lori Hantu》這樣的事情，在那裡這是非常普遍的，當地有許多棕櫚油的開發項目。(HO：所以你可以在高速公路上每天看到這些卡車？)是的，他們通常在高速公路上使用回收的輪胎，而這些輪胎經常會爆胎，當你開車時會看到路上有橡膠屑，然後你會看到類似大型卡車的車子，通常是與棕櫚油種植園有關。



HO

So that song is kind of building a kind of soundscape.

感覺像是在建立一種聲景。



YUNOR

Yes but the irony was when I first wrote Lori Hantu, I imagine it was going to be a country music…slower like a lullaby with a pedal steel you know. But again, went to the studio (laugh)…knocked it out. I imagined it, but the song tells me otherwise.

是的，但諷刺的是當我第一次開始寫《幽靈大貨車Lori Hantu》這首歌時，我想像這首歌會有種緩慢的鄉村音樂風格，就像搖籃曲一樣，並且以踏板鋼棒吉他彈奏。我跟夥伴們再次進入錄音室時，我只能說，我有我的想像，但這首歌成有它自己的樣子。



Penghutsu Blues was also something that inspired by that 2018 thing, so it's a commentary on our former prime minister.