In this Leanpub podcast episode, Len Epp interviews Ed Barnard, author of Beyond Prompt Engineering: The Revolutionary Way to Learn Augmented Thinking. With two 20-year careers—first in operating system development at Cray Research and then in web software development—Ed brings deep technical expertise and philosophical insight to the conversation.

They discuss the evolution of computing and Ed’s powerful approach to learning and working with AI beyond simply crafting prompts. Ed shares stories from his early days working with the “wizards” at Cray, his practical experience with software consulting, and how the pursuit of deeper understanding in human-computer interaction has shaped his latest work.

The episode also explores the limitations of current AI thinking, the importance of structured learning, and how his book provides a conceptual roadmap for those seeking to become not just prompt engineers, but collaborative thinkers alongside machines. It’s a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of programming, AI, and human cognition.

This interview was recorded on June 10, 2025.

The full audio for the interview is here: https://s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/leanpub_podcasts/FM317-Ed-Barnard-2025-06-10.mp3. The Frontmatter podcast is available on our YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/leanpub, in Apple Podcasts here https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/frontmatter/id517117137, and almost everywhere else people listen to podcasts.