In this powerful conversation, Greg Nettle sits down with author and pastor John Ortberg to discuss his newest book, Steps: A Guide to Transforming Your Life When Willpower Isn't Enough. Drawing inspiration from the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, Ortberg reveals why this recovery-based model may actually be the most effective path to real spiritual transformation—for everyone, not just those with addiction.

The conversation covers:

• How AA emerged from discipleship roots in the Oxford Group

• Why most churches struggle with a “wimpy Step One”

• How to foster communities of grace-filled vulnerability

• The critical role of desperation, community, and daily practices in spiritual growth

• How churches can implement the Steps curriculum and even start B12 groups (Bible + 12 Steps)

John also shares about his free daily vodcast ministry, Become New, and upcoming resources for small groups and churches based on Steps, launching Fall 2025.

Whether you're planting a church or trying to revitalize one, this episode offers practical wisdom and a compelling vision for deep, lasting discipleship.

We hope you enjoy this podcast. For more info about Stadia Church Planting and how you can get involved, check out stadia.org. To connect with Greg Nettle, you can find him at GregNettle.com

Episode Index

01:10 - John's new book *Steps* and its origin in the 12 Steps  
03:00 - Why *Steps* is for everyone, not just addiction recovery  
04:20 - The spiritual roots of AA and the Oxford Group  
06:00 - The power of weakness and the gift of desperation  
08:00 - Greg shares a baby dedication story and his own approval addiction  
10:20 - Why churches struggle with a “wimpy Step One”  
12:00 - Biblical examples of desperation and robust transformation  
13:20 - How desperation leads to discipleship intensity  
14:00 - Discipleship as both program and fellowship  
16:00 - Why church needs to be more like an AA meeting  
17:30 - The power of confession and shared inadequacy  
19:00 - Appropriate vulnerability for pastors and leaders  
21:00 - How to help your church take real steps toward transformation  
22:20 - Real-life church examples like the “B12 class”  
24:00 - Free video curriculum for *Steps* coming Fall 2025  
25:15 - Final thoughts: encouragement for church planters