What if the only way to build a company and a life with true resilience was to let everything break? Are you burned out, questioning leadership, or stuck in a plateau while everyone expects you to “scale perfectly”?

In this episode, host Sivana Brewer sits down with Matt Rhodes, COO of The Phoenix Method and co-founder of Polaris Capital Investments. Matt shares his raw story of rising from rock bottom, both in business and marriage, using a radical combination of systems, self-accountability, and explosive mindset shifts.

Discover how Matt and his wife Jen rebuilt trust, transformed company culture, and mastered the uncomfortable art of letting go… all while weathering the chaos of COVID and scaling new ventures.

Skip the endless analysis and unlock the real, actionable playbook for bouncing back stronger. Tune in now or risk staying stuck in mediocrity. This episode is an exclusive masterclass for COOs tired of perfection and ready for exceptional impact.

Timestamped Highlights

[00:00 ] – Why COOs must “let systems break” to escape perfection traps

[01:16 ] – The harsh wake-up call that shattered business—and marriage

[04:01 ] – How COVID exposed fragile culture—and forced total reinvention

[07:07 ] – The critical hiring shift: moving from sales stars to customer-first teams

[10:33 ] – Letting go, delegation, and the painful process that actually fueled growth

[13:52 ] – Fresh eyes: Why bringing in outsiders is the hidden superpower in scaling

[15:17 ] – The vital metrics Matt tracks weekly to prevent disaster before it hits

[19:07 ] – How Matt and Jen divided CEO/COO roles to leverage their strengths

[24:02 ] – Why top COOs never go it alone—the ROI (and resistance) of world-class coaching

[32:12 ] – Breaking isolation: Why environment and peer groups are every COO’s money-making secret

[36:43 ] – The one mindset shift that transformed results, inside and out

About the Guest

Matt Rhodes is the COO of The Phoenix Method and co-founder of Polaris Capital Investments, with over 25 years of leadership experience across corporate America, fitness franchises, and strategic investing. Known for his real-world resilience and trailblazing company culture turnarounds, Matt is a go-to coach for leaders intent on transforming challenges into growth opportunities. His current roles reflect his commitment to systems-led scaling, paired with the uncommon honesty few executives dare to share.

🔗 LinkedIn | Website | Facebook | Instagram

Mentioned Resources

1. Ram Dass
2. Snap Fitness
3. Closers.io
4. EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System)
5. Mindset Coaching
6. Burning Man

About the Co-Host

Sivana Brewer is a Fractional COO for Remote Teams and former COO at Closers.io, where she helped scale the company to multiple eight figures and built over 500+ sales teams in just 2.5 years. She specializes in leadership development, remote operations, and systems that empower teams to grow sustainably.

🔗 Connect with Sivana on LinkedIn

Important Links

1. Connect with Cameron: Website | LinkedIn
2. Explore the COO Alliance - The World’s Leading Community for Seconds in Command
3. Get Cameron’s book: Second in Command: Unleash the Power of Your COO Book
4. Take Cameron’s leadership course: Invest In Your Leaders Online Course (Use promo code PODCAST10 before the end of the month for 10% off)
5. Chat or video call with AI Cameron via Delphi

The Second in Command Podcast is an original production hosted by Cameron Herold and co-hosted by Sivana Brewer. Brought to you by COO Alliance. Production and editing by Podcast Your Brand.