In this episode, Asao and Shane talk with Dr. Michael Russell, Professor in the Carolyn A. and Peter S. Lynch School of Education and Human Development at Boston College, about his book, Systemic Racism and Educational Measurement: Confronting Injustice in Testing, Assessment, and Beyond. Their conversation focuses on Foucault’s “apparatus of oppression,” Feagin’s “white racial frame,” assessment design, teaching biases, and antiracist projects.