Understanding narcissism isn’t about excusing it. It’s about equipping yourself to break free and protect your mental health, especially during times of heightened emotions like the holidays.  

In this episode, Dr. Z is joined by Wendy Behary, expert in cognitive and schema therapy and author of “Disarming the Narcissist.” Together, they unpack the complexities involved in managing the dynamics with a narcissist. Wendy defines the role of empathy, not as sympathy or agreement, but as a tool for understanding narcissistic behavior, discerning your place within the dynamic, and strengthening your internal boundaries.

Wendy shares strategies for navigating interactions with narcissists, including maintaining neutral, confident communication and recognizing personal triggers. She also introduces the concept of schemas—deep-rooted emotional beliefs formed in childhood—and explains how identifying these patterns can help mitigate vulnerabilities within a narcissistic relationship.  

Join Wendy and Dr. Z as they share actionable strategies to help you protect your peace this holiday season, nurture your well-being, recognize your progress, and stay grounded in challenging moments.

Quotes

• “The problem with empathy is the word itself—empathy. Too many people hear ‘empathy’ and think ‘sympathy.’ You hear ‘empathy’ and think ‘compassion.’ It’s neither. Empathy, in really simple language, is ‘understanding.’ So, it’s not about having empathy for the narcissist; it’s about having empathy about narcissism—and your particular brand of narcissist that you may be dealing with.” (12:28 | Wendy Behary)


• “Empathy is not agreement. Empathy is not endorsement. Empathy is not support. Empathy can lead to compassion for someone in your life—not necessarily the narcissist, though it can for therapists. It certainly can when we develop a better understanding of what’s happening deep at the core for those narcissists who are actually willing to work on themselves. Some want to work on themselves, or at least have succumbed to the idea that they really need to. I think differentiating empathy—or just calling it a deep, skin-felt understanding of how something works and why it is the way it is—becomes part of your freedom ticket.” (14:44 | Wendy Behary)


• “Empathy means to know, to understand, to get, to sense. Know yourself. Where am I the most at risk? When does that level of intensity strike me, where I go into some defensive position when I have nothing to defend, when I start apologizing?” (19:11 | Wendy Behary)

Links

Connect with Wendy Behary, LCSW:

http://www.schematherapytrainingonline.com/p/empathic-confrontation-wendy-behary0

https://disarmingthenarcissist.com/

https://www.facebook.com/wtbehary

linkedin.com/in/wendy-behary-269a8a16

Instagram: @donsanddivas https://www.instagram.com/donsanddivas/

Connect with Dr. Z:

https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

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