Intro

Mike Schwartz: Hello and welcome to Open Source Underdogs. I’m your host, Mike Schwartz, and this is Episode 55, with Miguel Valdés Faura, CEO and Co-Founder of Bonitasoft.

Not every tech company follows the same trajectory to success. Hypergrowth is great if your market supports it, but the world of infrastructure software is diverse, and hypergrowth can subject your business to unreasonable risk.

To me, Bonitasoft was a reminder that a CEO’s responsibility can transcend shareholder value. While the primacy of shareholder value seems axiomatic in Silicon Valley, it’s worthwhile for entrepreneurs to weigh that risk. Miguel and his team did just that, and their success validates the idea that business models are not a one-size-fits-all proposition.

As a side note, as I was
doing my research, I noticed that Miguel has interviews in Spanish, English and
French. American CEOs are lucky to speak two languages, but three is pretty
exceptional. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the interview. This was the last of 2020.
So, without further ado, here we go.



Miguel, thank you so much for joining the podcast today.

BPM Market Overview

Miguel Valdés Faura: Thank you, Mike, for having me.

Mike Schwartz: So, although this is a
business podcast, you’re a technical founder, and sometimes, it helps to have a
high level of understanding of the market. Business Process Management, or BPM,
it’s still an important way to think about how to apply technology, but the technology
landscape has changed so much since 2001, I guess when you started the project,
and even since 2011, when you started Bonitasoft. Why is BPM still a good way
for companies to think about how to build applications?

Miguel Valdés Faura: Good question. So, it’s because companies – I like to say that it is all about processes, a ton of processes that are required to run a company, some that are more critical than others, but BPM technology has been here for a while to help companies, to rethink, re-invent and automate their processes, whatever, they are critical or not. Also, I think it is something that is here for a wider dimension, and of course, the market is evolving because also the needs of those processes are changing in organizations.

Project History

Mike Schwartz: So, the Bonita project itself started at the French National
Institute for Research in Computer Science. The project was transferred to the
Bull Group, and then, in 2009, you started BonitaSoft with Charles Souillard
and Rodrigue Le Gall?

Miguel Valdés-Faura: Exactly.

Mike Schwartz: And also, over the years, how is the community grown? Is the Bull Group still involved, and are there other important contributors in the ecosystem?

Miguel Valdés Faura: BullGroup, which is now part of Atos, at the origin, is involved, but as a partner. It is one of those hundred employees, partners that we have – I’m talking about Consulting and System Integrators Partners that helps customers worldwide with the Bonita implementation, but nothing more, meaning that over the years, Bonita self has grown into an international community that goes beyond specific companies, but, also, having individuals working sometimes as freelance models, as part of the bigger companies.

And I think that’s one of the main achievements now. We have now a community of around 150,000 individuals working with Bonita, not all of them of course are contributing, it is only a small portion of this contributing code, but there is people participating in answering questions in the forum, or translating the products – there is a lot of activity in the Bonita community that is not relied only on one company.

Why No-Code Is No-Go?

Mike Schwartz: In an interview a few years back, you said that the no-code approach does not open the possibility for developers to write code that meets business needs. Can you expand on that? Don’t business people love drag-and-drop GUIs, to build BPM workflows?

Miguel Valdés-Faura: Yeah, a good one. So, probably, it was referring that with this new trend of local done, this new kind of developers, the thing some analysts were calling business developers, at some point, we were facing with people that are not skilled in development to build some complex applications, and at some point, they’re going to face some limitations. Of course, a lot of people like to build on applications, using drag-and-drop, as I mentioned, or visual tools, but when the application gets more complex, or when you need to customize a little bit more the application, at some point, developers need to be part of the game as well.

So, I’m not saying that it’s not useful to have business people participating in the development projects. I’m not saying that the local movement is not something that is real, I’m just saying that we need to find a balance between things that can be done graphically, and first that require code, and it’s about how those two different skill sets can collaborate, how business people or people without development skills, can also work on the same project with developers.

Probably, those two personas are not going to use the same thing.

Customer Profile

Mike Schwartz: Thousands of organizations use Bonitasoft, but switching to the business side a little bit, from a revenue perspective do you see the 80/20 rule, where 20% of your customers make up 80% of your revenues? And if so, what does that 20% segment look like, with regard to use cases or industry verticals?

Miguel Valdés-Faura: In terms of the verticals, of course, I think it’s not only something  -particularly Bonitasoft, all BPM vendors, you know, have a lot of traction in market that are highly competitive. So, for example, insurance, banking, telecommunications, because there is a lot of pressure to do better than the competition, because there is a lot of processes that are related about how you provide better services to your customers, and how are you going to retain those customers by providing good services.

So, those will be probably the main four sectors
in which Bonitasoft is evolving and getting customers, and also, potentially
the ones, in which other vendors are also evolving. In terms of the split or
the size of the customers that we have, we have this idea from the very beginning
to focus on medium and large organizations.

So, there are some BPM vendors that are focusing
on smaller implementations, we are really focusing on complex implementations and
meet large organizations. So, the majority of our customers, like 75% of our
customers, will match that criteria. And the majority of the project
implementation inside those projects are either core or critical to their
business. We usually don’t start working with a customer in less critical
business process, but this is part of our strategy. And, of course, our product
is better suited for those complex implementation.

Value Proposition

Mike Schwartz: Kind of a basic question, but what would you say are the
most important value propositions for your customers?

Miguel Valdés-Faura: First of all, we are selling a platform, not a product, so, what we want is like to bring together those two personas that I was referring in a previous question, so business people or less skilled people, in terms of technical skills, and how developers can work together. So, we have a platform, in which you have clearly separated the visual programming capabilities versus the coding capabilities. So, in a sense, we are taking the benefits of the majority of things that we see in an open-source project. So, extensibility, open architecture, which APIs, compatibility with other open-source technologies that are things that appeal to developers. And at the same time, we have an integrated platform, a unified platform, that is also providing visual capabilities to less technical people. And, also, this clear separation in which, depending on the skills that you have, you can use some of the capabilities of the platform, and depending of your skills, you can use some others – these are the things that make us different, and that people like about our solution.

Monetization

Mike Schwartz: Bonita project is open source, and Bonitasoft has a platform built around that – how exactly do you monetize?

Miguel Valdés Faura: So, we sell subscriptions – package additional capabilities to the open-source version, and also, some professional services. And those subscriptions, minimum is an annual subscription, are sold either for people that are deploying the Bonita platform on premise, or people that are using our cloud offering now. But, in two situations, we are basically adding capabilities on top of the open-source solution, like for example, monitoring capabilities and scalability. And we package that together with a professional support, SLAs, contractor warranties, as part of this subscription. Also, it’s a 100% of our probably related revenue is a recurring revenue.

Cloud Strategy

Mike Schwartz: Cloud hosting i