Welcome to another episode of HALO Talks! Today, host Pete Moore sits down with Duff McDonald, former investment banker and well known business journalist, for a fantastic chat. Duff, whose career has spanned investment banking, business journalism, and bestselling books like “The Golden Passport” and “Tickled,” shares insights on how numbers and data have come to dominate our understanding of business and life—but why they often fail to capture what really matters.

In this episode, you’ll hear Duff break down the difference between “experts” and “specialists,” challenge conventional thinking on metrics, and advocate for living—and doing business—in the present. Pete and Duff explore why true connection, presence, and awareness can lead to better decisions, stronger relationships, and more meaningful work, especially in the world of health clubs and other verticals in the HALO sector.

Whether you’re an entrepreneur, leader, or simply curious about finding more joy and meaning in your day-to-day, this conversation will invite you to rethink how you measure success and what it means to build something that truly “tickles” you.

When we talk about coming "full circle," Duff definitely can relate. He says, "I worked at Goldman Sachs for two years. I was an investment banker in their analyst program, left that and went into business journalism and spent 20 years as a magazine writer, left that and sort of stopped doing so much magazine writing when the Internet kind of destroyed the economics of print, and weirdly, ironically, ended up writing books after that!"

Key themes discussed

• Numbers vs. Essence: Counting doesn't capture true meaning or human experience.
• Specialists vs. Experts: Doing is valued over analyzing and predicting.
• Relationships Over Metrics: Human connection outweighs numerical data in business.
• Entrepreneurship Mindset: Focus on purpose, not just growth or financial results.
• COVID Reflections: The pandemic brought unexpected personal growth and realizations.
• Recruiting and Team Building: Seek people driven by passion and engagement.

A Few Key Takeaways: 

1. Numbers Don’t Capture the Whole Story: McDonald challenges the idea that, “if you have the numbers, you have the story.” Having spent years in business banking and journalism, he realized that while numbers can track growth or comparison, they can’t really grasp the true essence of a business. Counting and data analysis are certainly valuable, but they’re just one dimension—true meaning often lies elsewhere.

2. The Power of Presence Over Metrics: The most impactful moments in life and business happen when you’re fully present in the moment—not distracted by the past or anxiously projecting into the future. Duff relates how, during the pandemic, his own mindset shifted to appreciating the “now,” leading to more genuine experiences and better decision-making. This is a reminder that being present—not just monitoring KPIs or quarterly numbers—can actually produce the strongest connections and best results.

3. The Difference Between Experts and Specialists: Duff makes a subtle but powerful distinction: Experts count, analyze, and predict; specialists do, master, and experience. (Read that again!) Real business insight (and life satisfaction) often comes from those with hands-on expertise—the “specialists”—rather than just those who look at or talk about the data. For example, if you’re sick, you want the infectious disease specialist, not just the epidemiologist with numbers.

4. Human Connection and Authenticity Trump Data for Retention: Specifically for health clubs and service businesses, Duff and Pete agree that relationships are everything. Customer retention and loyalty aren’t driven by clever data models, but by staff who are present, ask questions, and genuinely care. Looking people in the eye, building trust, and creating a real bond is more effective (and fulfilling) than merely simply tracking attrition rates or conversion numbers.

5. Find What “Tickles” You—and Others: Duff’s philosophy, as explored in “Tickled,” is about seeking out what genuinely excites and engages you. When people are truly passionate (“tickled” by what they’re doing), their energy is palpable and contagious—whether in recruiting, management, or customer interactions. Asking “What are you passionate about?” or “What tickles you?” leads to deeper, more meaningful relationships, both personally and professionally.

Resources: 

• Duff McDonald: https://theduffproject.com/   
• Duff McDonald LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/duff-mcdonald-076a8664  
• Duff's Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Duff-McDonald/author/B001K8NXAU 
• Integrity Square: https://www.integritysq.com
• Prospect Wizard: https://www.theprospectwizard.com
• Promotion Vault: http://www.promotionvault.com
• HigherDose: http://www.higherdose.com