Chef Paul Bartolotta, the Milwaukee restaurateur and two-time James Beard winner, was bemused by a recent challenge on "Top Chef Wisconsin." 

"When I heard 'chaos cuisine' I was like, what the hell does that mean?" Bartolotta said on this week's podcast. Bartolotta spent years working to bring "Top Chef" to Wisconsin. Here, he shares judging perspective and reflects on how the show has evolved. 

To open the episode, I (food editor Lindsay Christians) talk with Milwaukee-based food writer Nicole Haase, who has a degree in pastry and a background as an artisan baker. The dairy desserts Quickfire baffled her, namely how little dairy the chefs used in it. 

Spoilers ahead for Episode 6 (the dairy desserts/ "chaos cuisine" episode) of "Top Chef," Season 21, with side notes about finding the "yum" and what was going on with Manny's soggy churro.