What is social mobility? How can we measure it? How can we promote it? Is the “American Dream” still alive? How did the Covid-19 pandemic impact social mobility around the world? To answer these questions, Pedro Pinto interviews John Friedman in this episode of “It’s Not That Simple”, a podcast by the Francisco Manuel dos Santos Foundation. 

An expert on social mobility, John Friedman is a Professor of Economics at Brown University, as well as a founding co-Director of Opportunity Insights.  He studies the causes and consequences of inequality for kids, as well as policies to improve opportunity for children from disadvantaged backgrounds. His work has appeared in top academic journals as well as in major media outlets, has been cited by President Obama in his 2012 State of the Union Address, and has shaped policies at the federal, state, and local level.  Most recently, John and his colleagues at Opportunity Insights have published the Economic Tracker, providing the most granular and real-time look at how COVID-19 is affecting the economy in cities and states across America.  He worked as Special Assistant to the President for Economic Policy at the National Economic Council in the White House. He is also a Research Associate at NBER and a Co-Editor of American Economic Review. 

In this episode, Friedman discusses the importance of a person’s childhood and young adulthood in shaping their adult life and how high a step in the social ladder they will be able to reach, as well as how much education – and high-quality teachers – matter to a person’s social mobility. Friedman also addresses how society limits people’s opportunities depending on the circumstances into which they were born, and how women still face more obstacles to their social mobility than men. Finally, Friedman looks at the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic and the Russian invasion of Ukraine on social mobility in different parts of the world, in a conversation well worth listening to. 

More on this topic

• The Economic Tracker created by John Friedman and the Opportunity Insights team 

• John Friedman on the issues identified by the Economic Tracker

• An interview with John Friedman 

• John Friedman on improving intergenerational mobility

Other references in Portuguese

• “Mobilidade Social em Portugal”, a study by Teresa Bago d’Uva and Marli Fernandes for the Francisco Manuel dos Santos Foundation 

• Podcast Da Capa à Contracapa, “O elevador social em Portugal está estragado?” with Amílcar Moreira and Maria de Lurdes Rodrigues.