What if the easiest way to disrupt U.S. military operations isn't with missiles—but by targeting fuel logistics? In this episode, Chris Cleary explains how civilian infrastructure has become a frontline in national defense. He and Frank Cilluffo discuss how adversaries exploit cyber vulnerabilities to slow military response, and why deterrence requires more than just rhetoric. They unpack the case for a dedicated Cyber Force, the suprising way Chris thinks it should be structured, and the challenges of coordinating across government and industry. With prepositioned threats like Volt Typhoon in the headlines, the stakes are higher than ever.

Main Topics Covered

• How fuel logistics shape U.S. military readiness in the Pacific
• Why adversaries target civilian infrastructure like water and power systems
• What defines a "cyber attack" under rules of engagement
• Gaps in deterrence, response, and public signaling
• The case for a U.S. Cyber Force modeled after the Coast Guard
• Challenges of coordination across agencies and private sector providers

Key Quotes

"I could degrade the Navy's ability to run around in the Pacific by just limiting the ability to move fuel on the west coast of the United States." — Chris Cleary

"If [China's cyber forces] are in Littleton, Massachusetts, they're everywhere." — Chris Cleary

"I would argue a cyber force of the future looks more like a Coast Guard than a Navy."
— Chris Cleary

"I am a true believer that cyber is a legitimate means and methods of warfare. And we are going to have to professionalize in it." — Chris Cleary

"All the zero trust in the world is not going to stop—a China, a Russia, a sophisticated organization—from targeting you." — Chris Cleary

Relevant Links and Resources

60 Minutes on China's Cyber Infiltation: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-hacking-us-critical-infrastructure-retired-general-tim-haugh-warns-60-minutes-transcript/

Guest Bio

Christopher Cleary is Vice President of Global Cyber Practice at ManTech. He previously served as the Department of the Navy's Principal Cyber Advisor, where he led the implementation of the DoD Cyber Strategy across the Navy and Marine Corps. Prior to that, he was the Navy's Chief Information Security Officer and Director of Cybersecurity within the Department of the Navy CIO's office.