Chris Hirst, Global CEO of advertising group Havas Creative, cuts through the bullshit and gets to the heart of modern leadership in this straight-talking podcast brought to you by Intelligence Squared. 

In this episode Chris Hirst speaks to General Sir Chris Deverell. After joining the 2nd Royal Tank Regiment in 1983, he served in the British Army for over 40 years, ending his career as a 4* General. Over this period, he led multiple organisations of tens of thousands of people; civilian and military, frontline and supporting, on operations and in headquarters. His final role was leading Joint Forces Command at the British Army. During his time in the army, he drove innovation at the Ministry of Defence and since retiring, he’s taken on a number of roles, in the AI, tech, and innovation space.

If you enjoyed this podcast please let us know what you think by rating and reviewing No Bullsh*t Leadership on Apple Podcasts. For updates on the series follow @intelligence2 and @chrishirst on Twitter. Producer & Editor: Bella Soames; Technical Support: Mark Roberts. Chris Hirst is author of the award-winning book No Bulls*ht Leadership: Why the World Needs More Everyday Leaders and Why That Leader Is You. 

Here are the pod notes from this fascinating episode.

• 00:00 Intro 


• 01:29 The conflict in Ukraine 


• 02:06 Could the West have prevented the Russian invasion of Ukraine? 


• 03:07 The West’s response 


• 06:04 Groupthink in autocracies vs. democracies 


• 06:50 What would you be doing if you were still a 4* General during this crisis? 


• 10:04 Zelensky’s leadership 


• 15:02 What was your favourite role during your 40-year career in the military? 


• 16:33 How to get more female and ethnic minority leaders into the military 


• 19:57 Dislike of hierarchical information flows vs. the necessity of hierarchy in the military 


• 23:51 How homogeneity prevents change in the military and in business  


• 27:25 Business career after leaving the military 


• 30:01 The impact of AI on leadership 


• 31:22 The challenge of balancing consensus and bold decision-making as a leader and how to lead a team 


• 33:35 The role of failure in your journey 

Connect with Chris Hirst on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishirst/), Twitter (@chrishirst) & Instagram (@chrishirst_leadership).

Watch exclusive content and original videos from Chris Hirst on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNC4qT90ArKOuKV8B0LWTWA)

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