Welcome to Valuable Conversations with UCL Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose. On this episode, Ph.D. student Nai Kalema and MPA alumni Justin Beirold sit down with George Mpanga - aka George the Poet. 

George the Poet is an artist and activist from North West London. He is well known in the UK and beyond for his politically and socially powerful poetry, spoken word, and rap. In 2019, he became the first person outside the United States to win a Peabody Award for his podcast, “Have you Heard George’s Podcast?”. He is a member of the National Council of Arts England and performed at Harry and Megan’s Royal Wedding. Obviously, this is quite a different profile from the typical person we interview on this podcast. And that is precisely what makes it so exciting that George is also a Ph.D. student at IIPP.

You’ll hear Justin say to him at the beginning of the interview that he is something of a mystery man at IIPP. Everyone has heard that he is a Ph.D. student, but only a few have met him. People want to know why someone in his position - being an already pretty famous poet/rapper - wants to do a Ph.D. in the first place.  He said we would see him around a lot more often, which is good.

There is a lot to love about George. Every answer he gives is exceptionally thoughtful and interesting, and most are really profound. When he agreed to talk to us, we wanted to settle the question once and for all about why he is doing a Ph.D. at IIPP. (The short answer: Mariana Mazzucato talked him into it). He shares his thoughts on our narrow ways of thinking about innovation, how IIPP’s concept of “Tilting the Playing Field” applies to his own life, and much more. But we also wanted to know about his journey to where he is now - from a kid growing up in a family of Ugandan immigrants in a council estate, to a sociology major at Cambridge, to a rapper, then leaving his record deal to pursue poetry. One of the most beautiful things about George’s story is his intellectual journey. George was always extremely socially conscious. But what you will hear in the conversation is how he progressed from thinking about the problems in his community as problems of individual choices to structural problems of power, political economy, and public policy. His Ph.D. is the next step on that journey.

This is one of our favorite podcasts so far. We hope you enjoy our conversation with George the Poet.

Recorded in May 2022

- Listen to George’s Peabody Award winning podcast - “Have you Heard George’s Podcast” https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07915kd/episodes/downloads

- Listen to George’s song with Maverick Sabre - “Follow the Leader” (2018) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYG1Waliqbw

Follow George on Twitter: @georgethepoet

Learn about our hosts: 

- Justin Beirold - https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/public-purpose/justin-beirold

- Justin’s Twitter: @VibeEconomy

- Nai Kalema - https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/public-purpose/nai-lee-kalema

- Nai’s Twitter: @NaiKalema

Follow IIPP on Twitter: @IIPP_UCL 

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/public-purpose/

Production and music by Justin Beirold