Each one of us has some dream for our lives.  The trick is making sure that the dream matches our God-given abilities. In today’s program I’m joined again by a special guest – Peter Irvine the former Managing Director of Gloria Jeans Coffees.  

It's a fantastic thing that God puts dreams into our hearts. Some people live out those dreams in amazing ways; others have dreams but they never take that first step. And yet others set out on their dreams and, at some point, they end up wondering, “Am I really cut out for this. Do I really have the skills and abilities to live this dream?” This week we are joined by Peter Irvine, the managing director of Gloria Jeans Coffees. Over the last ten years, Peter's been involved in growing the Gloria Jean's chain from two stores in 1995 to how many today, Peter?

Peter Irvine: Two hundred and sixty-one stores.

Berni Dymet: That's awesome. You know, that's quite a…I mean, that's amazing in ten years. And as we were talking yesterday, this year you finalized the transaction to take over the brand globally.

Peter Irvine: That's right.

Berni Dymet: So, Gloria Jeans global is now Australian owned. That's fabulous! Now, pardon me for asking. But you came from an advertising and marketing background; I heard someone say once that marketing is the ultimate triumph of style over substance which is not a bad definition. It might be a bit rude, but what made you think that you could get involved in the "coffee game" coming from an advertising and marketing background?

Peter Irvine: Well, I don't see that we are limited. If God calls something into being, then He is going to provide the resourcing; He's going to provide the people; He's going to provide the wherewithal to make it happen. And we certainly have seen that through our business. But when both parties…my partner, Nabi Selah, he comes from a coffee growing, coffee roasting, coffee procurement (and tea as well)…he was bringing that already into the country and had worked on plantations roasting coffee. And I was coming from a background of marketing and understanding, to some extent, franchising, working very closely with McDonalds for 30 years.

Berni Dymet: Right.

Peter Irvine: And certainly other clients in the retail sector. So, when you bring those experiences and disciplines together, you've got a reasonable package to work from. But, on the other hand, I believe you can take someone and if they know the job, they've got the experience, they can come into a position and be able to start helping, assisting and building the product because they have an openness to learn; they know the disciplines. They just learn about the business as they are going along and can make the right decisions.

Berni Dymet: Let's say you hadn't been involved with McDonalds for thirty years, and you had been involved in other areas. Would you still have done this if you felt that God was calling you to do it?

Peter Irvine: Oh, most definitely. Because we are a franchising business, if you don't understand franchising and you are not used to dealing with franchisees, it's pretty scary. And some of our people, who come and join us, have a real head-change in how to deal in this type of business because franchisees, yes, have to follow the system; but they are unique individuals.

Berni Dymet: So, when, at the early stages, when you were planning this venture, what I hear you saying is that you had a sense that you had the right skills and background but not all of the answers, not all of the skills.

Peter Irvine: Well, I don't think we always have the answers. As we grow, we learn. I mean when we opened the first store, it was difficult but easy in some ways. You didn't know the obstacles, the opposition.

Berni Dymet: Ignorance is bliss.

Peter Irvine: That's right, it was. And you just plow through and you just assume certain things. And, in fact, I think some people thought, “Oh, these guys are fairly naïve in this. We'll help them out.” When you start on the second, third, fourth and fifth store, you know what happens. You know the obstacles. And, I think, you are anticipating them. And that's a problem. And you've got to get your head around that. And just try and plow through them or push them aside.

Berni Dymet: What are some of the things that you are really good at and some of the things that, maybe, you are not so good at that you have had to find other people to be involved?

Peter Irvine: Well, I'm a bit of a "jack of all trades." I know a bit about a lot of things which is dangerous in itself. But the real strengths, I guess, are working with people, being able to motivate people, being able to give people the opportunity to grow, to learn with the right direction. And I like a cup of coffee. And I understood…

Berni Dymet: That helps!

Peter Irvine: … franchising, the mentality of franchising.

Berni Dymet: But, I guess, the whole technical issue around coffee was not something that was your expertise.

Peter Irvine: No, no. I knew very little, if nothing. I just knew that I went to one shop the same time every day and wondered why it was OK one day and appalling the next. Well, I do know now.

Berni Dymet: So, you've grown a team. How many people are involved now in Gloria Jeans.

Peter Irvine: Well, in our office, our support office, as we call it, we have 120 people. And that's across Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane. And, then, obviously, the stores, we run a few ourselves, plus our franchisees with their staff, it's probably close to 4,000 people Australia-wide now.

Berni Dymet: That's an amazing team!

Peter Irvine: That's right.

Berni Dymet: How important is that team to the success of making the vision you had, the dream that you had in the beginning, of turning that into a reality?

Peter Irvine: Well, most important, if you start with our support office; they are the people who are going to have to build the business with us. We can't do everything so having the right team is crucial. We call it "having the right team on the bus." Occasionally, the bus has to stop and some have got to get off and some have to get on because people have a ceiling or a mind-set. They can only work to a certain level, and they will only be able to build a business to that level.

Henry Ford said, "You can take away my cars; you can take away my business; you can take away my money. But leave me my people, and we'll do it all over again. And that's really important because people are crucial. They represent you. They are the front face. And when you get to the retail stores, they are the front face to your customers.

Berni Dymet: They are Gloria Jeans.

Peter Irvine: That's right.

Berni Dymet: Is it hard as a couple of Christian guys running an organisation to say, "We have to stop the bus and this person has to get off?

Peter Irvine: It's always hard. But what I recognised in advertising, and I recognise in Gloria Jeans is that people who have reached that ceiling or could be unhappy find a whole new leash on life going somewhere where they can flourish at the level that they want to flourish. And you bring in new people and the rest of your staff perform up to a whole new level. It's like the lead goes off and you flourish.

And I think it's the same problem for churches. So many pastors and ministers have to make changes to their staffs. And that's difficult. And so many times people hang onto people and the whole situation becomes conflict—people don't talk with each other. When you release that, the whole opportunity moves forward.

Berni Dymet: Isn't it amazing how good God is when He takes someone who might not be working well in this environment and He inevitably has a plan for them to go on…

Peter Irvine: That's right.

Berni Dymet: … and to flourish in another place.

Peter Irvine: That's right.

Berni Dymet: And so often they can look back at that. The trick is treating them with love and respect at the time and working through the issues …

Peter Irvine: That's right.

Berni Dymet: … in a sensible way. I guess when you look at what Paul wrote in Romans 12, he talks about the body of Christ. And he says, "Look, some of us are eyes and some of us are feet and some of us are hands and those different people have different strengths but they also have different weaknesses. And with 4,000 people, many of them belonging to franchisees, who maybe see the world differently from head office staff, I guess, there are people issues; I guess, there are politic issues in the organisation. I mean, as a man of God, how do you deal with those? What are the insights you have in dealing with those, what are the insights you have in dealing with those difficult people issues?

Peter Irvine: Well, we adopted a policy, if you like, that's just the way we operate — confronting things head-on. And I did it in advertising as well. You will always have one party tell you one thing, and then you will get an opposing view from someone else. But I find that if you get them both together; get all the parties in the room and you start talking, then each party suddenly realises that it