Wednesday marks day 15 of the government shutdown.

Tensions and worries continue to grow as federal workers increasingly go without pay and Congress remains at an impasse.

Annette Meeks, founder and CEO of the conservative think tank Freedom Foundation of Minnesota, has experienced being in the political thick of a shutdown. She was deputy chief of staff for Republican U.S. Rep. Newt Gingrich. Gingrich became speaker of the House of Representatives in 1995 during the Clinton administration. Later that year, a disagreement between Republicans and the White House led to a government shutdown lasting 21 days.

Meeks joined MPR News guest host Emily Bright on Morning Edition to share some insight into why lawmakers are failing to reach a spending agreement in 2025.

The following transcript has been lightly edited for clarity. Listen to the conversation by clicking the player button above.

What was the 1995 shutdown like? What did you learn?

I learned that 21 days can feel like two and a half years without even trying. It was the longest 21 days of my life. And of course it would be, because you have people who are greatly distressed.

From the folks who are traveling to Washington to sightsee and visit their capital, which is their right, and all you hear about is, “Oh my gosh, we went to the Washington Monument. It was closed.” You have that level of inconvenience, to the level of people who are nervous and anxious about getting, for example, their student loan approved, or getting an application for a nonprofit approved by the IRS. That level of shutdown really does concern both individuals and families as they are trying to plan for the future.

Right now, a lot of people are looking ahead toward the spring semester and getting those student loans approved, and they need that now. People talk about it only being about a quarter of all federal spending. It’s not that much, but it is to you when it affects you.

Having been alongside former Speaker Gingrich, what unseen pressures might Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson be under right now?

We were new to the job, let’s put it that way. A Republican hadn’t controlled Congress in 40 years when we took over in 1995, so we didn’t know a lot of what we didn’t know. One of the things we discovered very quickly is people call and they call the speaker, because you’re the person in charge and the one they see on the news every night.

We burned through a fax machine. It’s one thing to go through a printer cartridge. It’s another thing to have the machine just shut down and stop working. I don’t mean this to be disparaging, but it was generally unions that were sending form letters to their members to say, “Send this fax in right now.” And they did.

So, we had two employees who answered the phones in our office just up and quit in the middle of the day. And you also have to work 24 hours a day. That’s the thing that most people don't realize when they call and start screaming, is that those people are really tired and they’re not getting paychecks either. So I always like to say to both sides, a cooling-off period would really be helpful to give everybody a chance to catch their collective breath and realize what they are doing and how irresponsible it is to shut down the government.

You were Congressman Tom Emmer’s running mate during his bid for governor in 2010. Emmer is now House majority whip. What kind of pressure do you think someone in his position faces here?

Well, that’s the one interesting thing: When you’re speaker, you have 434 members of the House that also call your office daily for updates or any information. Remember, most of them are at home right now, and they’re not in Washington, so they’re waiting to hear what’s going to happen next and when they have to be on a flight to D.C. When you’re whip — because Newt was also whip for eight years before becoming speaker — then you answer to all of your Republican colleagues or Democrat colleagues. And they call you incessantly, as do their staff, to find out if there is any movement: “Is there anything you know I should be doing? Should I be putting my boss on a plane to come back tomorrow? I keep hearing these rumors.”

And so if I were Tom Emmer right now — a good four or five hours of sleep is about the most he’s probably getting, because he is working 22 hours a day trying to get this impasse moving on. It’s not just you. And I should add, you’ve got the Senate you have to deal with, and their inability to cooperate as well. So that adds a whole new dimension to your arguments.

Does it benefit President Trump to be seen making a deal to reopen the government or to stand his ground?

Boy, if I were him right now — he is on such an incredible high. Watching the events unfold on Monday in the Middle East, to me, was like when the Berlin Wall came down — just a moment where you can’t leave the TV. It’s so amazing that this is happening in our lifetimes. What a wonderful thing. I might try to use a little bit of that power or gravitas that I have right now to go up to Capitol Hill and say, “All right, gentlemen, let’s work this out and see what we can get done,” because this is not how our government should function.

Editor’s note: MPR News reached out to the Minnesota GOP congressional delegation for an interview this week. As of Wednesday morning, none had responded.