Jonas Coersmeier is an architect, designer, and educator with a radical take on artificial intelligence. In his book, Material and Artificial Intelligence in Architecture, he argues that AI is neither a tool that only does our will, nor a rival come to steal our place. Instead, he sees AI as a collaborator -- an entity that’s no more or less important than human beings in the work they all share.

That has been hard for me to grasp. After all, intuition tells me I get my ideas from some unknowable depth in my soul, combined with inscrutable providence (as in, apple falls where Newton’s head is.) In the tradition I grew up in, creators take their ideas andshape the world to match our vision (think of all those solitary geniuses in folklore, tapping sculptures out of marble, scribbling symphonies for hundreds of instruments, or designing bridges and iPads). You know, like this guy:

In reality, Coersmeier argues, architectural creation emerges from networks of interacting agents. Some are human (like engineers, construction workers, miners) but many aren’t (they’re rivers and lakes, steel and stone, wind and rain patterns -- and, now, the AIs that architects increasingly engage in their work). It’s a much less Hollywood-friendly reality, sort of like this:

Artificial intelligence, he argues, helps humans to see this, if we use it well -- that is, if we let it surprise us, influence us, and remind us that we aren’t the center of creativity’s whirlpool. Coersmeier believes that decentering humanity will help us treat the planet, and each other, better than we do today.

We have been arguing about these ideas for some time. And that’s what we did during this conversation in his studio. We talked about how he and his students subvert AI tools (fewer predictable dull results, more weird surprising ones); why decentering humanity isn’t inhumane; how he reconciles the value he sees in AI with its ecological costs; how visual and geometric AI differs from the kind that makes texts -- and a lot of other topics.

Full disclosure: Coersmeier is a friend of mine, and I had a role (as an editor, advisor and frequent disagree-er) in the writing of his book. That wasn’t the reason I invited him on, as I think you’ll hear. You’ll judge that for yourself.

Also, I lightly edited this conversation to remove interruptions (for instance, as it was 100 degrees outside, we had to turn his AC on at times, and pause our talk while it rumbled).

Please note the transcript is AI generated and may well contain a few errors.

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