In this authentic episode, Carmen Murray and John Vlismas unite after 40 days of lockdown to share their Øutsiders journey as two formidable forces and visionary thinkers during one of the most novel times of the 21st century.



They reflect on how Øutsiders started as a philosophy, community, a podcast, and how they joined forces to help businesses recover, rebound, and flourish. They unpack the discomfort they've had to face and how they had to become Houdini Masters to invent themselves out of the box of locks and chains.



Enjoy the episode!



Music: John Bartman | Outsiders Join the Outsiders