The Americas director of Human Rights Watch, Juanita Goebertus Estrada sits down with us this month to talk about El Salvador’s policy of mass incarceration.

For a country the size of Massachusetts in the US, El Salvador has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Unlawful detention and an abuse of power have become hallmarks of the reign of the Salvadorian President, Nayib Bukele, who once described himself as “the world’s coolest dictator”. The country is a long-running state of emergency – since 2022 - and there are calls to reinstate suspended constitutional rights.

“Now, El Salvador has the equivalent of 1.4% of its people incarcerated. In many senses for Salvadorians, this has been presented as a paradox: if they want security, they need to sacrifice their human rights,” says Juanita.

According to the World Justice Project, El Salvador ranks 111th across 142 countries in its rule of law index for 2024, with steady declines since 2020. It all started as a crackdown on gangs in 2022 after a series of homicides committed by criminal gangs, but quickly turned into a policy of mass incarceration. Various human rights organisations, including Human Rights Watch, have documented arbitrary arrests, torture and huge violations of due process.

According to Juanita: “It started by being able to capture without a warrant, being able to prosecute without sufficient evidence and maintaining people in pre-trial detention indefinitely.” 

And as Bukele ramped up his crackdown on civil liberties, he gained a significant ally in the US President Donald Trump. In exchange for a few million dollars, Trump unlawfully deported over 200 Venezuelans from the US who were held in El Salvador’s high security prison for gang members. The deal was done after Bukele went to Washington to visit Trump.

“Seeing Trump and Bukele in the Oval Office, it seemed as if they were sharing lessons on how to be an authoritarian leader,” says Juanita.

With over 100,000 people now in prison in the country and with reports of torture and mass violations of due process, what’s its future? And what sort of an impact is Trump’s relationship with Bukele having on wider power dynamics in Latin America? Tune in, to hear Juanita’s compelling insights.

Presented and produced by Evelyn McClafferty.

With thanks to our donors: Irish Aid.

Note: The views and opinions expressed in this episode do not necessarily represent those of IRLI or its donors.