In this episode, Michael talks to Katherine Zappone, one of the architects of same-sex marriage in Ireland. Katherine describes her early work, with her partner and fellow educator, Ann Louise Gillighan, in providing ‘classes’ to local working-class women to help build their confidence. Their approach was to create a dialogue with the women that might spur them to action. It was a similar approach to the one made famous by Paulo Freire, the Brazilian educator with whom they occasionally collaborated with. In the community organising world, this way of working might be described as part of base building. Katherine then goes on to describe their work to make same-sex marriage possible in Ireland of which there is a documentary.

The epilogue between Michael and Pritpal reflects their views, not necessarily Katherine’s.

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Ratio Talks is produced with the help of sound designer Nik Paget-Tomlinson and creative director Richard De Angelis. The show’s theme song is by Luca Picardi.

In this series, Michael is exploring community power — what it is, how it’s linked to better outcomes, such as health, and what its limitations are. The series is in collaboration with Pritpal S Tamber, a researcher and consultant on the link between community power and health, and a Non-Executive Director of Ratio.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thisisratio.substack.com