Pulitzer prize winning journalist and economics and tax expert David Cay Johnston spoke with us about his long and extensive investigative research on former U.S. president Donald Trump as well as the state of the U.S. economy during the Trump and Biden presidencies. Johnston spoke critically of news organizations, especially of what he characterized as their inability to cover Trump as "a con artist" and three generations of white collar criminality of the family of the man who now wields control over the Republican party. Johnston labeled Vice Presidential candidate J.D. Vance a man of no moral principles, and went on to talk about the abortion issue, Project 2025, trickle down economics, former President Trump as "an asset to the Russian government, not an agent," and Trump tower as a place once full of mobsters and a casino under Trump's apartment. Johnston accused U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland of poor judgement in waiting too long to appoint a special prosecutor. We discussed the four cases set against former president Trump and Johnston distinguished the difference between a pardon and clemency and spoke of the IRS as "tax police" as well as why many Americans appear to approve of Trump not paying any taxes. We concluded with Johnston talking about his only appearance, with no return invitation, on the Rachel Maddow's TV show and a story, set in Lansing, Michigan, of one of the few times he felt, as an investigative reporter, he was wrong.