“You said the important word there and that is the word grown up. To be grown up is what? To recognize, yes, I am accountable for what spills into the world through me. And if I don't want to be, then I'm just irresponsible and immature. And if I want to be accountable, then I have to start inquiring about from whence are these places, these things coming from in me.

Because if I don't do that, they'll just keep happening. And secondly, to, to know that I'm accountable for those consequences. And thirdly, that I have to find some source. of guidance when I'm not depending on simply the dictates of the culture outside me. You can put it this way, we all need to find what supports us when nothing supports us.

That's a paradox, you see, but essential. Supports you when the outer structures and, you know, marching orders that you got from family and culture, when they don't work anymore.”

So says James Hollis, a PhD and Jungian analyst who is still in private practice in Washington D.C. Hollis started his career as a professor of humanities before a midlife crisis brought him to his knees—and to the Jung Institute in Zurich. The author of 19 books, Hollis is one of the best interpreters of Carl Jung’s work, making it accessible for all of us who want to understand how complexes, archetypes, synchronicities, and the shadow drive our lives.

Hollis’s books are very meaningful to me—you’ll find a long list in the show notes—and the chance to interview him did not disappoint. In fact, at one point, where he describes what we do to boys as we turn them into men, I actually started to cry. Meanwhile, James Hollis still lectures—you can go to his site to find a way to see him live. The fact that he’s 84 and does not seem inclined to retire—in fact, he told me he has another book coming out next year—is a testament to how a vocation doesn’t feel like work. This is one of my favorite interviews to date. I hope you love it as much as I do.

MORE FROM JAMES HOLLIS, PhD:

Why Good People Do Bad Things: Understanding Our Darker Selves

Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life: How to Finally, Really Grow Up

A Life of Meaning: Relocating Your Center of Spiritual Gravity

The Broken Mirror: Refracted Visions of Ourselves

James Hollis’s Website

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Connie Zweig, “Embracing the Shadow”

Satya Doyle Byock, “Navigating Quarterlife”

Terry Real, “Healing Male Depression”

Niobe Way, PhD, “The Critical Need for Deep Connection”

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