DiscoverComplex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11)Picking Uncle Sam's pocket, with Jetson Leder-Luis
Picking Uncle Sam's pocket, with Jetson Leder-Luis

Picking Uncle Sam's pocket, with Jetson Leder-Luis

Update: 2024-10-24
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Description

In this episode, Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by economist and fraud researcher Professor Jetson Luis-Leder to examine the systemic issues underlying government program fraud. Jetson and Patrick discuss healthcare fraud cases, including hospice eligibility manipulation and ambulance transport schemes, and other fraud practices against unemployment and the PPP program. The discussion reveals how institutional constraints, technological limitations, and policy design choices create opportunities for both beneficial and harmful rule violations. They also analyze the ROI of fraud prevention measures, the effectiveness of whistleblower incentives, and how bureaucratic systems can be redesigned to prevent abuse.

Full transcript available here: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/defrauding-government-jetson-leder-luis

Sponsors: Check | WorkOS

Check is the leading payroll infrastructure provider and pioneer of embedded payroll. Check makes it easy for any SaaS platform to build a payroll business, and already powers 60+ popular platforms. Head to checkhq.com/complex and tell them patio11 sent you.


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Links:

Twitter:
@patio11

@jetson_econ


Timestamps:

(00:00 ) Intro

(02:04 ) Overview of Medicare/Medicaid

(02:41 ) Estimated $50-100B fraud losses

(03:31 ) Taxonomy of healthcare fraud

(08:04 ) Hospice fraud; potentially saved money

(16:33 ) A $10 billion asterisk: ambulances for dialysis patients

(21:30 ) Sponsors: Work OS | Check

(24:45 ) Complexities of fraud detection and prevention

(39:02 ) Pandemic fraud 

(41:34 ) Findings on PPP loans fraud

(48:19 ) Supply chain of fraud

(52:06 ) Policy and enforcement challenges

(01:08:32 ) Whistleblower programs 

(01:14:54 ) Final thoughts

Complex Systems is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Turpentine also has a social network for top founders and execs: https://www.turpentinenetwork.com/

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Picking Uncle Sam's pocket, with Jetson Leder-Luis

Picking Uncle Sam's pocket, with Jetson Leder-Luis

Patrick McKenzie