In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down with Rick Doblin, founder of MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), for a raw, unscripted conversation on the future of psychedelic therapy, the dangers of hype, and the deeply personal reasons behind his decades-long mission.

We go deep into:

• Why MDMA was criminalized and how Doblin outmaneuvered the DEA
• The hard lessons from MAPS' FDA rejection and what's next
• Parenting and psychedelics: how both Rick and 3L1T3 approach education with their kids
• The trauma epidemic—why it’s bigger than war, abuse, or addiction
• How psychedelics could help shift collective consciousness in an age of collapse
• Burning Man, the Zendo Project, and building a new kind of community

Doblin shares stories of his first psychedelic trips, his rebellious roots, and his vision for a future where safe, supported altered states are a human right, not a privilege. This isn’t just policy talk, it’s soul talk.

👉 If you’re neurodivergent, psychedelic-curious, or just fed up with the way things are—this one’s for you.

🧠 Support the show: patreon.com/divergentstates
🎟️ Learn more about Psychedelic Science 2025: maps.org
🔬 Psychedelic Science 25 at https://www.psychedelicscience.org

Thank you to our Visionary Collaborators on Patreon!  
Thank you to Flintwick for the music! 

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Divergent States and MAPS
02:47 Rick Doblin's Journey and the Founding of MAPS
10:03 The Messianic Idea and Psychedelics
18:54 Psychedelics as Tools for Healing
19:00 Educating the Next Generation about Psychedelics
25:00 The Role of Psychedelics in Addressing Global Trauma
30:09 Psychedelics and the Future of Humanity
33:31 Revitalizing Spirituality and Cultural Contexts
34:45 Psychedelics and Responsible Use
36:11 Modern Rites of Passage through Music
37:57 Harm Reduction and Support at Festivals
39:19 Psychedelic Science 2025 Conference
41:35 Community and Collaboration in Psychedelic Research
43:42 Reflections on Policy and Progress
45:42 Navigating Politics and Science
49:35 Globalizing Access to Psychedelic Therapies
52:42 The Importance of Divergent Perspectives

Send us a text

Follow and subscribe!

FiresideProject.org

Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE

Support the show

Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mycocosm, and our Heroic Doser Lucy on Patreon!

https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod