This week, we’re sharing a great conversation Ross had on “The Ezra Klein Show” this past spring. Ezra asks Ross about his most recent book, “Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious.” But along the way, they debate not just how religion influences the Trump administration but also their own lives. Come for their seeking and stay for their thoughts on ayahuasca and mystical encounters.

• 02:39 - Trump: man of destiny?
• 19:55 - Political power, cruelty and Godliness
• 36:13 - Religion and spirituality in the modern world
• 42:53 - The mysteries of the universe…
• 48:38 - Aliens! Fairies! (and some Catholic history)
• 56:51 - Contending with uncertainty and evil
• 1:05:24 - Psychedelic experiences
• 1:20:56 - Official knowledge
• 1:38:58 - Book recommendations

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.

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