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Dave Sweet is a retired detective from a large western Canadian police service who now works as a consultant in Calgary, conducting workshops, training, writing books, and hosting a podcast. He retired in October 2023 after spending 14.5 years investigating murders and suspicious deaths. Most of our conversation is focused on death notifications and communicating with the next of kin.

In this episode we talk about:

• the importance of having facts, being truthful, and using direct language rather than euphemisms like “gone to a better place.”





• the perceptions of the families and that they may have already rehearsed or imagined how they would receive bad news about their loved ones by the time officers arrive.





• how the initial notification can either traumatize families further or help set them on a path toward healing, depending on how professionally and compassionately it’s delivered.





• how people can react differently to death notifications. Cultural differences also play a role in how people express grief.





• the critical difference between sympathy (which can be disconnecting) and empathy (which is connecting) and the importance of empathetic responses in notifications.

You can contact Dave Sweet through his website: https://www.unconventionalclassroom.ca/

Transcript

Yvonne Kjorlien: All right, we’ll see how it goes. So why don’t you start by telling me who you are and what you’re currently doing.

Dave Sweet: So my name’s Dave Sweet, and I am a Detective from a large western Canadian police service and, currently, I am working as a consultant in Calgary. Do a lot of workshops, training, write books. I’ve my own podcast. So I’m sort of a jack of all trades, as it stands right now. Not seeing I yeah.

Yvonne Kjorlien: Your own podcast. How did I miss that? I’m gonna have to go stalk, and look you up! What?

Dave Sweet: Yeah. Yeah.

Yvonne Kjorlien: So, how long have you been retired now?

Dave Sweet: I actually just retired last year in October so it’s been, I’m just coming up on my one year anniversary of that, but I’m still a young man, so I feel like I can’t be too idle. I haven’t earned that yet.

Yvonne Kjorlien: Right. Thank you again for agreeing to speak with me. I’ve been trying to find somebody or some way to address talking with the next of kin and working with them regarding their either potentially or actual dead relatives. And I’ve always felt very iffy about approaching families to talk about that sort of thing because it’s icky to go and say, “Do you want to talk about how you’re feeling?” because I just find that very insensitive. So, thank you for coming on and agreeing to talk about this very touchy, sensitive subject.

Dave Sweet: Sure. And I recognize it as sensitive as well, but also I think hopefully we’ll be some valuable information for people out there, just in terms of when they’re dealing with their own crisis and tragedy into the future. We’ll all have one at some point in time. So learning a little bit about other families or how other people have approached that may help somebody listening have a better idea on how they might approach their own.

Yvonne Kjorlien: So let’s go back into your past a little bit and if you can maybe sketch out, maybe some situations in where you’ve had to deal with families and talk to them about their next of kin or, either a potential to deceased or somebody who’s actually deceased.

Dave Sweet: Sure. Yeah, of course. So my background really, I spent the last 14 and a half years of my life investigating murders, suspicious deaths. And, obviously, as a result of that, had the opportunity to speak many different families along the way and including having the opportunity to be the first person to advise them when a loved one had died. Often in tragic circumstances and situations. And something, I think came to learn early on, well, there’s a few things I came to learn early on when it came to notifying somebody that I loved one had passed, was one, make sure that when you went to do the notification that you had some facts, some information that you’d be able to pass on to them. Because there’s going to be an immediate need on their end and to understand kind of what has happened. And although you may not be able to know, you may not have all of the information available, you should be able to at least explain a little bit around the circumstance. The second, was to keep it truthful and honest, always. Never to sort of sugar coat an issue, but to, instead, be deliberate in the words and the message that you were giving. And that kind of leads into the next part, which was be direct in your message, specifically. And what I mean by that is that you can find yourself in a really awkward spot, if delivering the news of someone’s sudden loss, you used words like “they’ve gone to a better place” or “they’re no longer here with us.” Those types of phrases or messages often are followed with some really sort of uncomfortable questions, like “What do you mean? Where did they go?” And then would you still have to get to the place where you probably didn’t really want to be in the first place, which is being just completely direct and honest with them. And so I found early on learning from others, really watch them do it themselves that delivery could be done compassionately, but it should be always done directly. And so, you almost created a script, I guess, of sorts, that I used almost every time. We’ve all had this experience, I think where we have, we’re looking at the clock and we’re thinking, “Geez, my loved one isn’t home yet. And it’s weird that I haven’t heard from them,” and if a few hours go by, doubt starts to creep into our minds: “Where are they? What could be happening?” And undoubtedly, at some point in time, some of us, our thoughts might even switch to, “I hope they’re okay,” and “What would it be like if a police officer was to pull up to my home right now?” And we start to kind of pay a little bit more attention to the doorbell, the phone ring, the front of the street, our driveway, as we wait to see our loved one home and hope that everything is gonna be okay.

From my experience, often the delivery of bad news, it was already somewhat expected from families. And so, one thing I came to learn was, early on, was is that if somebody hadn’t, they woke up in the morning and their son or daughter wasn’t home yet, they began to worry. By 11 o’clock and they haven’t been able to reach them, they begun to really worry. So, by the time you show up at the house at one o’clock in the afternoon, their worst fear’s coming true, but I think they’ve actually already gone through a process where they began to sort of rehearse what that is going to look like. And so something I came to learn is is honor whatever that rehearsal is supposed to look like for them. They’ve kind of already decided how they would want the delivery of tragic news given to them. “What would happen if the police officer knocked on the door? Would I let him in? What I make him tea? What I want to know at the door? What would my reaction be to the news it in the first place?” And I think as an investigator, when we walk up to a door and knock on it, we have to recognize that somebody’s has already began to go through that rehearsal. And so really, they’re going to tell you how they want the news delivered. So, I’ll give you an example of it.

Years ago, I’ve done a notification, a young man had –a young father, actually — had gone out with a group of friends and they were enjoying the night. He left his wife and his kidlets at home and in the course of the night, they had found themselves at the house party, I guess. And while they were at the house party, there was an altercation, and in that altercation, he was actually fatally stabbed. And so, our unit was called out. We learned who he was and learn where he lived and learned a little bit about us his history and his life. I was tasked with another officer of going to the home and notifying, his wife of his death.

And I remember we pulled up that morning, it was about 11 o’clock, and she was doing exactly what I just described. She’d been kind of keeping an eye on the front street, waiting to see who was gonna show up and, oh my God, that looks like a couple detectives and a detective car that’s just pulled up in front of my house. And I remember as we’re walking up the front steps, to the home, she comes right out of the house and she stops right on the front step. And I introduced myself. She goes, “I know exactly who you are.” And she goes, “I know why you’re here. Does it have to do with my husband?” And I said, “Yes, can we come in?” And she said, “Absolutely not. You cannot come in.” And I said, “Okay.” She goes, she said, “Is he dead?” And I said, “Yes, he’s dead.” And I said, “Are you sure you don’t want us to come in?” And she goes, “You can’t come in. My son is having his birthday this morning and we have a whole bunch of kids over to the house.”

Yvonne Kjorlien: Wow.

Dave Sweet: “And we are not going to come in and ruin that for him today.” So, she had a short conversation with us out there on the stoop, and then asked us to leave, which we did, and asked us to come back the next day, and we would do the actual delivery of the news to everyone in the home including the children. That’s exactly what we did. But she had already scripted out, this is how sh