Kay >> Hi. I’m Kay Daigle. Welcome to the Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast. Today I am talking with my friend Lynn Hoffmann. Welcome, Lynn.

Lynn >> Well, thank you, Kay. I’m so glad to be here.

Kay >> Well, we are so glad to have you today. I’ve been looking forward to this and a lot for a long time in fact, I’ve been trying to get Lynn on here for a long, long time. And I think we finally hit on some things she wanted to talk about. So here we are we’re going to talk today about leaders as shepherds. We’re going to be talking about shepherding small groups. And really shepherding is an aspect of discipleship. And so that’s where discipling people were shepherding them.

And so let me just tell you a little bit about Lynn, but you can find more about her on our website, BeyondOrdinaryWomen.org. Go to the dropdown menu where it talks about the “About Us” and look under video podcast contributors and you’ll be able to read all the details about Lynn and all the things that she’s done. But I will tell you that she’s had years of involvement in recovery ministry. She taught she led groups, she’s mentored women, and she wrote her own book that she began using Steps into God’s Grace.

And we’ll let her talk about that at the end of our podcast a little bit. Now, she’s the certified spiritual director so she’s done a lot of different things. And I know that she’s going to be a blessing to all of you out there. Since we’re talking about shepherding, I thought we would just talk for just a few minutes about sheep a little bit and shepherding since it’s used so much in the Bible and there’s a reason because we are like sheep in a lot of ways.

And I’m not going to talk about how we’re like shape, but I’m going to talk about shepherding a little bit So I thought we would look at a few scriptures. I’m not going to really open all these and read the whole thing for you right now. But I would encourage you to read back through Psalm 23. I’m sure everyone is familiar.

“The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want He makes me dwell down in green pastures. He restores my soul.”

And all of that is the wonderful Psalm. It’s one of my very favorite. So I think it’s probably on everybody’s top ten list, at least of passages. So we learn a little bit about a shepherd as we look at Psalm 23.

It says that the shepherd thinks of what the sheep need, what kind of food they need. He leads them there. He protects them from their enemies. And he’s a companion. He helps heal them. And we see all of that in Psalm 23.

And then in John 10, Jesus calls himself The Good Shepherd, and in John 10:1-16, I encourage you to read the whole thing, but what we see there is he talks about that he knows the sheep so well. That he knows them by name and that they follow him because they trust him and they know him. He cares for them and says, “I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.”

So there’s a sacrificial aspect to being a shepherd. There’s giving up some things because of the of the sheep under you. And certainly we aren’t saying small group leaders need to be crucified in any way, but we’re talking about just you give up your own time, you give up your own things that you might want to do so that you’re providing and caring for your sheep.

And then the last place that I want to look at is actually the longest. And it is back in the Old Testament in Ezekiel 34. The whole chapter is about sheep and shepherds and basically God is calling out the spiritual leaders in Israel for not taking care of the people of Israel. So the whole chapter is about that. But I thought I would read verses 13 through 16 because it sort of summarizes some of the things that the shepherds do for the sheep.

So verses 13 through 16. God talks about the fact that since the shepherds have not taken care of the sheep, he will tend them, he will take care of them himself, he will become their shepherd. And he says, “I will bring them out from the peoples, gather them from the countries and bring them to their own soil. I will shepherd them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines, and in all the inhabited places of the land.

“I will tend them in good pasture, and their grazing place will be on Israel’s lofty mountains. There they will lie down in a good grazing place.” We saw in Psalm 23 that it talks about the sheep lying down in the presence of the shepherd and it reminded me a lot of Matthew 11:28-31 Jesus says, “Come to me all who labor and are heavy laden I will give you rest.” He gives us rest. We lie down in his presence so good shepherd helps the sheep be at rest be peaceful.

“I will tend my flock and let them lie down. This is the declaration of the Lord.” And then here is the summary. “I will seek the lost, bring back the strays, bandage the injured, and strengthen the weak.”

So those are some of the qualities and characteristics of the shepherd, some of the of the areas of need of the sheep the shepherd cares for.

So Lynn, in light of all of that and in light of all of your experience, how can a leader care for her heart? Small group as a shepherd does direct just as is your at the meeting. How does that translate into caring for the women who are sitting there with you?

Lynn >> You know, I think that there are a lot of things that we can talk about, about how you can care for them. And I think that before we even maybe discuss that, I’d like to just kind of just talk about why we’re in a small group to begin with, because generally speaking, I don’t know about you, but I think that many people that I talk to are in small groups because it has generally been kind of expected by the people in their church. That part of your spiritual growth includes being in a small group. So we have created a lot of small groups and we have a lot of people who are leading small groups. But I can’t I don’t know that I would say that all the people that are in small groups and leading small groups are really been trained to be a leader and what they’re really going to encounter leading a small group.

So I’m really excited about having the opportunity to talk about that because for me, I realize that I talk to a lot of women who are very frustrated by being in a small group that they’re doing it because they feel like it’s something they’ve been called to do. And it’s part of their Christian life is to be in a small group.

But many of them are just very frustrated by the whole process. They’re not necessarily finding it meaningful or they’re not necessar