Welcome to Season 2, Episode 1 of the Z3 Podcast! In this conversation, Z3 Founding Director Rabbi Amitai Fraiman speaks with Rabbi Dr. Laura Novak-Winer and Robbie Gringras about the evolving landscape of Israel education, particularly in the wake of the events of October 7, 2023. Each of them discusses the goals of Israel education, emphasizing the importance of knowing Israel in a nuanced way rather than simply fostering love for the country.

Their conversation delves into the historical context of Israel education, the challenges faced by American Jews in connecting with Israel, and the need for a deeper understanding of values and relationships within the Jewish community. Together, they explore the complexities of Jewish identity, the impact of recent events on perceptions of Israel, and the role of education versus advocacy in shaping these discussions.

About our Guests:

Robbie Gringras is a British-born Israeli educator, writer, and performer. He is co-director of For the Sake of Argument, powering the practice of healthy argument throughout the Jewish world. Previously Robbie coined the phrase “Hugging and Wrestling with Israel”, created and drove the 4HQ System of Israel Education, and consulted and taught for many international Israel Education projects. Robbie also has a parallel career in theater, performing around the world with his solo shows.

Rabbi Dr. Laura Novak Winer

As of July 1, 2025, Rabbi Dr. Laura Novak Winer will transition into the office of Associate Rabbinical School Director at Hebrew Union College, after 5 years as director of the Master of Educational Leadership Program at Hebrew Union College’s Rhea Hirsch School of Education. She remains a member of the School of Education faculty, based on the Jack H. Skirball Campus in Los Angeles. Her graduate courses include Leading Change in Jewish Education, Creating Cultures of Learning, Entering Organizations, and Introduction to Jewish Education. Laura has published in a variety of academic and professional journals and popular media. She was the editor of several curricula and is a frequent presenter at academic and professional conferences and on webinars. She has been a regular contributor to Moment Magazine’s “Ask the Rabbis” column since 2010. Laura recently served as co-chair of the Hebrew Union College’s Teshuvah Working Group which developed a set of recommendations designed to bring healing to those impacted by historic misconduct and strengthen institutional accountability. She earned her doctorate at the William Davidson Graduate School of Education at the Jewish Theological Seminary of America, focusing on how teachers’ connections to and understandings of Israel impact the decisions they make about what to teach and how to teach it. She continues to research and write about Israel education as a Senior Fellow at the Jack, Joseph and Morton Mandel Center for Studies in Jewish Education at Brandeis University. Rabbi Laura has lived in Fresno, California since 2011 with her husband Rabbi Rick Winer, who serves as the rabbi at Temple Beth Israel. They have two adult sons and have recently welcomed their partners into the Winer family circle.

Chapters

(00:00 ) Introduction

(12:55 ) Evolution of Israel Education

(24:13 ) Values and Relationships in Israel Education

(30:38 ) Theological Perspectives on Israel Education

(34:41 ) The Importance of Community in Jewish Identity

(41:19 ) Navigating the Impact of October 7th

(50:23 ) The Role of Education vs. Advocacy

(01:00:02 ) Defining Jewish Identity and Zionism