On this episode of REALtalk, David S. Cohen joins Carolyn Lane, COO and VP Member Engagement and Jennifer Lambe, Office Manager at REALPAC to discuss the Great Resignation.

The episode covers:

• Impetus behind the “Great Resignation”


• Trends in Canada


• Solutions for employers to retain people


• How will the Great Resignation impact corporate culture?


• How remote work will impact corporate culture


• The medium-term impacts of the Great Resignation


• Impacts of the Great Resignation on CRE, HR


• Advise for corporate decision makers

About David S. Cohen:

David works with leaders helping them understand what is and what is not necessary to build an active and positive organization. He helps leaders’ step into life’s challenges, inspiring them to create a sustained approach through a values-based focus, resulting in better business results. David has had the privilege of partnering with firms across five continents and all business sectors. He has worked with governments, from the local to the federal levels, and not-for-profits.

Podcast transcript: 

Michael Brooks (REALPAC): Hello, everyone, thanks for listening and welcome to REALtalk, the show that brings you unique insights from leaders in Canadian and international commercial real estate. I’m Michael Brooks, CEO of REALPAC.

Carolyn Lane (REALPAC): Hello, my name is Carolyn Lane. I’m Chief Operating Officer and VP Member Engagement at REALPAC, and I’ll be hosting today’s podcast along with Jennifer Lambe, REALPAC’s Office Manager. Jennifer leads our People & Culture committee. And I’m pleased to say that she’s making her podcast debut today.

Jennifer Lambe (REALPAC): Hi, Carolyn, thank you for having me. It’s great to be joining you today.

Carolyn Lane (REALPAC): Excellent. Our guest is David Cohen. With over 30 years of consulting experience working across all industries on five continents. Dave, it’s recognized as a global thought leader in the field of talent management. He is known for his ability to help organizations by providing perspective coupled with practical insight, to align talent and business execution successfully. David’s gained a reputation of being a contrarian consultant, not always following what’s popular. He’s a frequent corporate keynote speaker and conference presenter and teaches the executive education programs at the Schulich School of Business at York University and at the Human Resource Department of Durham College. David is the author of two books The Best Selling the Talent Edge and Inside the Box, leading with corporate values to drive sustained business success. David, we’re so pleased that you’ve agreed to join us today. Thank you and welcome.

David Cohen: Thank you. And I’m honored to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

Carolyn Lane (REALPAC): Ok, so we’ll get started. David, we’ve been hearing and reading a lot about the great resignation employees jumping ship in record numbers in the U.S., switching careers and re-evaluating work and what’s important to them like spending more time with family, all because of the pandemic. David, is that same trend happening in Canada? Is it? Is it really that bad in this country? Are people resigning en masse and is it really the great resignation or is it something else? Like, are there other factors at play?

David Cohen: It’s a great question, because if you listen to the popular press, you would think that what’s happening in the United States is happening all over the world and it’s not. For instance, in the United States in the past three months, they claim that there’s been approximately one percent to three percent of the population has quit their jobs. That is about four million people a month. The equivalent, according to Stats Canada, for the last three months, is less than one percent. So that’s kind of it was very clear in their last publication last week that they do not believe that the great resignation is happening in Canada. I believe that it’s happened. I believe that there are Canadians that are thinking of it. They have not executed on it in most jobs. But I also think that there’s another side to the coin and that it’s the great realignment of the Great Migration, that it’s not necessarily just the fact people are resigning because they still have to pay their mortgage. So they’re looking for new jobs now. There are those who are resigning early and retiring early to pursue their dreams because I do believe that the pandemic has caused many, many people to have an experience to re-evaluate their lives priorities.

Jennifer Lambe (REALPAC): Great. That’s some interesting facts, David. So what are the causes of this great resignation or the great realignment, as you just mentioned? And what are the solutions? Is there anything we can be doing to retain people?

David Cohen: It’s an interesting question because obviously there’s a reason people are leaving now up to the pandemic. The general rule of thumb was people don’t leave companies, they leave managers. So up to the start of the pandemic and perhaps even into the beginning of the pandemic, if somebody left, it was because of the manager. However, other things started to take place. And I’ve talked to their employees are just in United Arab Emirates two weeks ago, and while they’re not experienced the great resignation either, they are saying that their employees feel overworked and under a lot of pressure, and that there’s a lot of anxiety and talking with people inside of corporations with inside Canada. You also feel that a lot of organizations have put a lot of pressure and focus on the bottom line. So people are feeling stress. They are feeling anxiety. Some of the reasons that people have given for leaving are new priorities in their life. They don’t understand work life balance the way they used to because working from home has become work and there is no balance. A coupled with that will be those people who are thinking that they have. They’re worrying about parents or grandparents who are not living with them. So they got parental responsibilities as well as children responsibilities that has taken an impact. What they thought was the culture of the organization and what they anticipated were ways that they would be treated based on previous in-person experience. They’re realizing their managers are not treating them that way.

David Cohen: And perhaps the culture has shifted, not shifted. But the true culture is now emerging. So people don’t want to work within that culture, so they are leaving for their jobs. One of the interesting things that I was reading on a CTV report was one of the major Canadian consulting firms actually said that the majority of those considering leaving their work or between 40 and 50 five that the millennials are not the people that are even considering leaving work. It’s those that have all of these pressures. So then the other side of the coin is there’s a myriad of things that are causing people to think about leaving. What do you do to get in there? I’d say as one of my clients in the financial services industry has done, they have taken the time to train every manager from the CEO down to the front line on. A psychological safety. They’ve actually spent time with managers on online courses on how do I ask the right questions and identify is an employee stressed out? Do they need some time off? What kind of support do they need? Where can you direct them? That is the anecdotally, they said. That’s been a great help. And it would be because right now, psychological safety for many is more important than the physical safety. Since people are not at work. The second thing that you need to do is there’s a lot of anxiety among employees on the return to work. So many organizations are now considering returning to the physical office after January 3rd but haven’t announced what that’s going to be.

David Cohen: One of the things that will get many employees in some surveys say up to 30 percent of your employee base is not going to return if there’s not flexibility if it’s not a hybrid workplace. Now, in order to do that successfully, the hybrid workplace has to be co-designed with employees. It shouldn’t come from the HR department and shouldn’t come from the C-suite. It should be a process of an integrated process that engages the front line staff, those people that are most impacted, those are having the anxiety with those that are in leadership positions. So there’s a mutual understanding of what’s going on. Those are some of the things that another thing which I think two things that organizations have to spend a lot more time on is what I call the stay interview. All they need to be. And this cannot be done by the manager, because if the person has a problem with the manager, the manager will get the answers that the employee thinks the manager wants, but the stay interview is really focused on how are they feeling? What are they thinking about? What do they see as the next steps? And the other part is that you have to ramp up your you have to ramp up your recruitment process. Recruiting needs to start to be an ongoing process. Even