In this episode, Richard and Vernon discuss various aspects of job stability in the tech industry post-pandemic, the impact of innovation on job longevity, and the dynamics of accidental management. They explore the changing landscape of tech roles, the importance of ratios between developers and testers in projects, and the evolving nature of go/no-go decisions in software releases. The conversation emphasizes the need for clear metrics and standards to facilitate smoother decision-making processes in tech teams.

00:00 - Intro

01:07 - Welcome to the Vernon Richard Emily Show

01:35 - Our viral moment

03:07 - Question: Do you think people are staying in tech jobs longer since the pandemic? The old time in role used to be about 2 years right?

17:00 - Income worries and diversification

20:20 - Question: I see loads of developers become accidental managers, but i don't think that's as common for testers - what do you think?

23:40 - Can Testing specialists become Engineering Managers (and beyond)?

26:06 - How does being a Quality Engineer impact your chances?

28:25 - Lived experience vs coaching

31:08 - We're already doing management and leadership

32:19 - What career paths are open to people with a testing background?

33:59 - Question: Do you think there is a good target ratio of dev:test professionals in greenfield projects? Brownfield projects etc. If not, what sort of thing do you think that depends on?

34:40 - It depends! On the project demands

35:20 - It depends! On what kind of people are in the team

37:10 - It depends! On testability

37:33 - And Rich's answer is...

39:19 - Sometimes you can't coach your way out of a situation

40:50 - It depends! On what good looks like

41:25 - It depends! On where the company is in it's life

44:35 - Question: My team release software to customers 1-2 times a week. Who do you think should be in that "go/no go" conversation?

46:46 - It depends 🤦🏾‍♂️

48:16 - go/no go meetings in 2002 versus 2025

Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:

• 01:35 - Our most viral video to date
  • It's the short Sometimes it's best to quit your job
• 05:02 - Gary Stevenson, economist, trader, author
  • Gary's website
  • Gary's YouTube "Gary's Economics"
  • Gary's book "The Trading Game"
• 13:02 - Graham Freeburn
  • Happy retirement Graham!
• 17:00 - Here's the phrase Vernon butchered and what he was trying to convey
• 28:41 - The definition of coaching
  • The International Coaching Federation (ICF) define coaching as: "Partnering with clients in a thought-provoking and creative process that inspires them to maximize their personal and professional potential."
  • Here's Vernon explaining it during a presentation at Agile Testing Days
• 37:10 - Resources about the 10 Ps of Testability
  • Article on testability featuring the 10 Ps
  • The book Team Guide to Software Testability by Ash Winter & Rob Meaney