Would you sacrifice your career and reputation to save thousands of people you’ve never met? Faced with the world’s attention, would you tell the truth no matter what?

Jason Vines is a PR man and a legend. He was a vice president at Ford during the Firestone scandal of the 1990s, where tire failures caused hundreds of people to die in crashes. He helped make decisions that saved lives, and one of those decisions got him fired.

The Ford debacle is just one story from Vines’s remarkable career—he also worked at the top at Chrysler and Nissan. He knows what it feels like when an entire industry loves you, but also how a job can push your family to the brink of collapse. We asked about all of it. (Fair warning: He likes profanity.)

Driven to Fail is a podcast about what happens when things go wrong. What we do when life falls apart, and what we learn when we try to put it back together. Brought to you by the Hagerty Podcast Network.