Brief Summary

Our main program focus was on space exploration, where participants discussed various aspects including NASA’s role, commercial space initiatives, and the future of human spaceflight, with particular emphasis on SpaceX’s development timeline and capabilities. The conversation concluded with discussions about space markets, orbital data centers, and the broader implications of space exploration on American society and politics. The Space Show Wisdom Team including myself, guest Bob Zimmerman, Marshall Martin, Phil Swan, Dr. Doug Plata, John Hunt and Zoom phone caller Daniel. Note that in this program I experimented with various Zoom speaker layout positions. If you have a preferred format, please let me know by sending an email to drspace@thespaceshow.com or posting a blog message on the blog page on our website, www.thespaceshow.com/show/11-nov-2025/broadcast-4459-zoom-bob-zimmerman-returns.

Detailed Summary:

David and Bob discussed potential candidates for the position of NASA Administrator, expressing reservations about Isaacman and Sec. Duffy. They agreed on the importance of maintaining professional decorum during these discussions. The conversation also touched on the upcoming appearance of Avi Loeb on their show and the breaking up of the comet 3i Atlas.

During the program Bob made some predictions about the future of space exploration. Zimmerman claimed that SpaceX, rather than NASA, is currently the most effective American space program. He predicted that in two years, everyone would recognize SpaceX’s dominance. Zimmerman also suggested that NASA’s role should become less significant, with its focus shifting to supporting private space endeavors rather than leading space exploration efforts.

Bob predicted that Isaacman’s nomination as NASA administrator would successful despite potential challenges, as he expects Isaacman to be confirmed. He speculated that Trump’s initial withdrawal and subsequent renomination of Isaacman were influenced by Isaacman’s past Democratic Party affiliations and his recent statements at a Turning Point USA event, which may have reassured Trump about Isaacman’s loyalty. Bob expressed hope that Isaacman would reshape NASA to focus on public-private partnerships, making it more efficient and less relevant, though Congress’s involvement could complicate this process. He also hoped that Isaacman, as a former astronaut, would prioritize safety and engineering over schedules, potentially delaying the Artemis mission to test critical systems without risking human lives. Bob believe it is unsafe or at least very risky to fly humans on the first mission with the Orion spacecraft.

Our Wisdom Team discussed the Artemis program and its workforce, with Bob estimating around 2,000 people directly involved in building Artemis missions, plus additional contractors. They debated the future of human spaceflight, with Bob expressing skepticism about the long-term value of the Artemis program compared to private space initiatives like SpaceX’s Starship. This part of the discussion concluded with Bob advocating for a more flexible approach to space exploration that focuses on building American space industry capabilities rather than competing with China to be first to return to the Moon.

Phil and Bob discussed the challenges and approaches to space exploration, focusing on the differences between NASA’s cautious engineering approach and SpaceX’s faster, iterative testing method. Bob expressed concerns about the Orion spacecraft’s heat shield issues and NASA’s tendency to prioritize schedules over engineering safety, drawing parallels to past accidents. He emphasized the importance of rigorous testing and learning from failures, advocating for a SpaceX-like approach of frequent testing and flying. Bob also criticized Blue Origin’s slowdown under new leadership, highlighting the need for continuous testing and improvement in space technology development.

The Wisdom Team discussed SpaceX’s upcoming launches and development timeline. Bob predicted that SpaceX’s Flight Test 12 would be successful and occur around the end of December, with Flight Test 13 potentially featuring a double catch around February. He noted that SpaceX aims to conduct an orbital mission next, followed by tests of controlled re-entry and in-orbit refueling. We also discussed SpaceX’s financial independence, with Bob emphasizing that Starlink revenue is solid and will allow SpaceX to pursue its own space program without relying on NASA. He predicted that in 2-3 years, SpaceX will be close to operational with Starship, capable of lunar missions and demonstrating refueling in space.

Our team talked about Elon Musk’s space ambitions and political stance, with Bob noting that while Musk’s trillion-dollar bonus is not yet earned, his Mars colonization plans remain a key goal. David raised concerns about political polarization affecting space policy, particularly regarding Musk’s relationship with NASA and the FAA’s handling of SpaceX permits during the Biden administration. The discussion concluded with Bob comparing Musk to Cornelius Vanderbilt, emphasizing that despite Musk’s failed attempt to create a new political party, his primary focus remains on engineering and space exploration rather than politics.

The Wisdom Team went on to discuss the scientific analysis of comet 3i Atlas, with Bob expressing frustration that Avi Loeb’s claims about it being an alien spacecraft have distracted from the significant finding that it is a typical interstellar comet, similar to others in the solar system. Bob criticized Loeb’s approach as overanalyzing and not supported by the data, while Phil and John suggested that Loeb’s intentions might be more about raising awareness and preparedness for such phenomena rather than genuinely believing in an alien origin.

We shifted to a discussion about space exploration, with Bob predicting a busy year for commercial space launches, including attempts from several companies like SpaceX, Rocket Lab, and various Chinese and Indian startups. David inquired about the timeline for establishing private lunar habitats, to which Bob suggested that within two decades, thriving commercial operations could be established on the Moon, Mars, and other celestial bodies, pending the freedom for private enterprise in space exploration.

We went on to talk about the role of robots and AI in space exploration while emphasizing that while AI and robots are valuable tools, they should not replace human exploration. Bob noted that SpaceX’s Elon Musk uses AI sparingly in their operations and views robots as tools to enable human achievement rather than as the primary goal. The conversation then shifted to Mars exploration, where Bob highlighted that current rovers have focused on scientific research rather than potential colony sites, and he suggested that future robotic missions should focus on scouting locations where humans might establish colonies. David raised concerns about Space Show programs continued heavy focus on SpaceX, noting that while SpaceX dominates the American space program, he strives to diversify the discussion topics. Not always do the participants pay attention to that effort at program diversity.

The Wisdom Team started talking about development of space markets and the cost of accessing space. Bob argued that while launch costs have decreased, they are still high enough to support private investment in space companies, citing examples like SpaceX’s success and new competitors like Rocket Lab and Stoke Space. Phil countered that launch costs have not significantly decreased, with Falcon 9 still costing around $6,500 per kilogram, and emphasized that more significant cost reductions are needed for a major increase in space businesses. Collectively we discussed how competition could eventually drive down launch costs, with Robert expressing regret that Blue Origin’s delays have hindered competition with SpaceX.

The Wisdom Team discussed the economics of space launch vehicles, with Bob and Phil debating the extent to which SpaceX has achieved “cheap access to space.” While Phil noted that SpaceX’s prices haven’t significantly decreased from historical rates, Bob emphasized that SpaceX’s reusable rockets provide a cost advantage over other launch providers. The discussion then shifted to Daniel’s question about space-based data centers, with Phil providing engineering insights about the challenges of power and heat management in different orbital locations.

As our program was ending, phone listener Daniel brought up for discussion the feasibility of orbital data centers, with Marshall proposing the idea of using Starlink satellites equipped with AI processors and solar panels. Bob emphasized that while the concept might be promising, it would require investment capital and launch capacity. David shared his concerns about the practicality of orbital data centers, citing the challenges of energy supply and cooling in space. The discussion concluded with suggestions for future projects and the need for concise communication with our team members and the guest in future shows.

HISTORICAL NOTE:

During the discussion, I mentioned an older show with the student posting cube sat instructions on the web back in the day when cube sats were not a common term or space hardware item. The program in question featured Zac Manchester who was doing a Kickstarter program and he posted cube sat diagrams on the web. The program link is www.thespaceshow.com/show/05-feb-2013/broadcast-1944-special-edition. This program with Zac was dated Feb. 5, 2013. If any of you know what Zac is doing today, I would like to catch up with him,