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Paul and Stephen are joined by intrepid investigative journalist Leslie Kean — the very journalist who broke the groundbreaking 2017 UFO story to The New York Times and introduced the world to the Pentagon’s UFO videos. Leslie unveils the intriguing story of Luis Elizondo, the former head of the Pentagon program responsible for the investigation of UFOs—now known as Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP).

Elizondo released groundbreaking videotapes of pilots' first-hand encounters with UFOs, including the white “Tic Tac” shaped unidentified flying object the public often sees alongside news stories of UFOs. Leslie recounts how Elizondo actually found documentation from the 1940s and 50s that describe the same Tic-Tac shaped objects, and discusses the existence of underwater submerged objects, adding a whole new depth to the UFO narrative. And did you know that official, legislated language has expanded to include sightings of this broader phenomena? Then, Jacques Vallee’s and Carl Jung’s perspective on extraterrestrials, and does anyone think these are literally aliens or another unexplained psychological phenomenon? Famed UFO expert Budd Hopkins and Harvard Psychiatrist John Mack get their due, and where does Leslie stand on alien abduction phenomena?

Later, the trio dive into accounts from individuals who claim to have had extraterrestrial experiences. Is whistleblower David Grusch more reliable than Bob Lazar? And what motivated the Department of Defense to create the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO)?

Tune in to this thrilling Chinwag with Leslie Kean and dive into the ocean of UAPs and soar high into the cosmos of possibilities!

Chin-word of the Week: ANOMALOUS

Paul Giamatti is an award-winning actor and producer. Stephen Asma is a professor and author specializing in the philosophy of science, religion, and art. 

Leslie Kean is an investigative journalist who co-authored a series of groundbreaking stories on UFOs for The New York Times from 2017 to 2022. She is the author of two books: UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record and Surviving Death: A Journalist Investigates Evidence For An Afterlife which was turned into a Netflix docuseries.

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