Today I'm speaking with author and psychotherapist Estelle Frankel to talk about one of the most paradoxical spiritual truths: that wisdom grows when we allow ourselves not to know.

Estelle shares insights from her book The Wisdom of Not Knowing, weaving together depth psychology, Kabbalah, Buddhism, and the simple human longing to grow into who we’re becoming. We talk about:

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  Why uncertainty is not a threat but a doorway into wonder

  
  


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  The spiritual and psychological “octaves” of not knowing

  
  


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  How asking better questions can reshape your leadership and inner life

  
  


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  What depth psychology and mysticism reveal about change, fear, and resilience

  
  


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  The dangers of spiritual bypassing and why our parts deserve compassion

  
  


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  How trust, hope, and curiosity help us navigate upheaval

  
  


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  The powerful question: What is the question your life might be an answer to?

  
  

Estelle’s wisdom is tender, surprising, humbling, and full of depth. This is a conversation for anyone living through ambiguity, transition, or calling.

Resources & Links:

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  The Wisdom of Not Knowing by Estelle Frankel

  
  


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  More about Estelle: EstelleFrankel.com

  
  

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Chapters

00:00 — Opening & Welcome

04:33 — Estelle’s Story and Background

07:50 — Certainty, Crisis, and Becoming

10:40 — Living with Uncertainty

13:01 — Listening and Beginner’s Mind

14:59 — Psychology, Spirituality & Integration

18:45 — The Stages of Not Knowing

21:52 — IFS and Self-Compassion

28:18 — Wonder and Awe

31:40 — Mystery, Humility & the Ungraspable

35:35 — Hope and Resilience

38:20 — Trust and Repair

41:27 — Estelle’s Work & Closing