To hear the whole episode, subscribe to 5-4 Premium on Patreon, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Bonus content, access to a vibrant 5-4 Slack community, and occasional denunciations of listeners who disappoint us.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Dustin DeSoto. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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