George Packer is an American journalist and the author of ten books. He writes about U.S. culture and politics, as well as the country’s foreign policy. In his view, over the past decade—despite a higher level of economic prosperity—Americans have been struck dumb by the sheer number of assaults on democracy and on ordinary people inside the country. The MAGA harnesses this discontent and grievance to boost its own ratings, yet it has nothing in common with the people it claims to fight for. Ultimately, Packer says, it does not care about their lives.

One vivid example is the current U.S. vice‑president, J.D. Vance. He has turned into a politician who trades onpeople’s resentments. Packer even calls him the most influential ideologue in the current president’s inner circle. Trump himself, Packer argues, falls beneath any standard of ideas or morality. He compares Trump to a shark: youcannot blame a shark for attacking a swimmer in the middle of the ocean. You simply have to keep it at a distance — something the American people failed to do.

As for Ukraine, Packer is convinced that it holds no significance for Trump. On the contrary, Ukraine has become a problem for him because he seeks closer ties with Putin. “You can say thank you. You can launch this brilliant Operation Spider's Web. You can show that Russia is attacking civilian neighborhoods, relentlessly killing scores ofcivilians. And you still can't win with Trump and Vance,” the journalist concludes.

Journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk speaks with George Packer about the rise of MAGA in the United States, why itsadherents cannot coexist with techno‑futurists, J.D. Vance, the targets of his attacks and the roots of his hostility toward Zelenskyy, Signalgate, and the fight over the death of empathy within the American political establishment.

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