“Something about the motion of walking is conducive to generating both ideas and conversation. You can empty your mind and open your mind at the same time.”
—Kevin Kelly

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reports from a “Walk and Talk” across northern Thailand. Interviewees and conversation topics are listed by time-code below. Participant write-ups about (or alluding to) the 2023 Thailand Walk and Talk include:

• The Walk and Talk: Everything We Know, by Craig Mod


• Walk and Talk: Everything We Know (PDF document), by Kevin Kelly


• Walking the Heck out of Thailand, by Craig Mod


• Walk and Talk, by Derek Sivers


• Expanding Home, by Liz Danzico


• Where Do You Call Home?, by Jason Kottke


• 2023: Walking, by Dan Wang


• Why Not Pay Teachers $100,000 a Year?, by Daniel Pink

Kevin Kelly (4:00-15:00 )

Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is a photographer, writer, and futurist, with much of his work centering on Asian and digital culture. His newest book is Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I’d Known Earlier.

• Travel can be a way to see the future (Deviate episode)


• Kevin Kelly on the lost world of 1970s Asia (Deviate episode)


• Wired (technology magazine)


• The Cotswolds (region in central Southwest England)

Liz Danzico (15:00-27:45 )

Liz Danzico is VP of Design at Microsoft, and the Founding Chair of the MFA Interaction Design Program at the School of Visual Arts.

• Long-distance hiking at home (Deviate episode)


• The Death and Life of Great American Cities, by Jane Jacobs (book)


• Lets Drift (Kenyan hiking club)


• Hoka (brand of walking shoes)

Silvia Lindtner (27:45-46:00 )

Silvia Lindtner is a writer, ethnographer, and Associate Professor at the University of Michigan. Her book Prototype Nation: China and the Contested Promise of Innovation was published by Princeton University Press in 2020.

• Seeking rural places (Deviate episode)


• Jiangxi (Chinese province)


• Guangdong (Chinese province)


• Yunnan (Chinese province)


• Salzburg (city in Austria)


• The Vulnerable Observer, by Ruth Behar (book)


• Anna Greenspan (media professor)


• Communitas (unstructured community of equals)

Daniel Pink (46:00-52:00 )

Daniel Pink is a best-selling author of books on work, business, and life. His “Why Not?” project in collaboration with the Washington Post to aims to jolt America’s imagination about possibilities.

• When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing, by Daniel Pink (book)


• Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us, by Daniel Pink (book)


• The Power of Regret, by Daniel Pink (book)

Craig Mod (52:00-69:00 )

Craig Mod is an author and photographer who has written and photographed about his walks across Japan, his love of pizza toast, and his life in Japan.

• Walk Japan (tour company)


• Rich Roll (ultra-endurance athlete)


• The Glorious Boredom of My Walk in Japan, by Craig Mod (essay)


• Kissa by Kissa, by Craig Mod (book)


• Things Become Other Things, by Craid Mod (book)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.